Handgun in RV - Place of Residence ??

M

Mike H

New member
Guys,

Let's get this out of the way first, I'm English, my wife is American and we live in England.

When we vacation in the wife's home state of Pennsylvania, I always take the time and trouble to pick up a low cost handgun for self defence/plinking purposes, something that strangely tends to get some TFL'ers a little snippy for a variety of reasons, but I digress.

Next years vacation is being hailed as the grand RV tour of the East coast, starting naturally enough with a parental visit to Pa, where the wife plans for us to pick up our RV. Now I have absolutely no intention of sleeping in remote locations with nothing more lethal than my strange accent and crooked teeth to scare away intruders, a Cougar .45ACP or similar is a likely purchase as I'll want some serious firepower to hand should the sound of a jemmy levering our door open wake us one dark night.

So here's the question, should one of those sweet natured State Troopers decide to search the RV and subsequently discover the loaded Cougar in a drawer in the living compartment of the vehicle, would this constitute an offence ?, or should the weapon be locked in a case as stipulated by Federal law for handguns in a "vehicle" crossing a state boundary, i.e does the RV constitute our "place of residence" and even if it does, as visitors does this make any difference.

Before anyone points out that we should phone the Law Enforcement Agencies of the states we intend to visit, I have already considered that option for nearer the time. What I'm more interested in are your opinions, preferably with any associated experiences or second hand stories.

PS - this years purchase was a S&W .22LR Model 22A, thinking that all I needed was a plinker, right up until we encountered the black bears that is......mental note bigger caliber next time.

Regards,

Mike H
 
Mike, there's lots of truckers I know who keep a loaded gun in the cab and have never run into trouble. One thing you might ask yourself is what the probability is of the police searching your RV. I'd say it's next to zero. If they _were_ to search it, that would mean you're probably in trouble for something more serious than having a loaded gun in the vehicle. Besides, with your accent they probably assume that you hate guns ;).

I am not an attorney, so don't construe this as legal advice.

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
It depends

Once you get to PA, I would call all of the State Police agencies in the States you plan on visiting and ask them what their interpretation is. They may or may not know.

If you RV is connected to utilities at the local KOA campground it is, indeed, considered you home. On the road, however, it is often treated like a common vehicle, that is, our beloved Supreme Court has deemed your 4th and 5th amendment rights to be less of a protection.

I have read a thread on CopTalk http://www.glocktalk.com where many cops consider the sleeping quarters on a long-haul trucks as being the driver's "home." They don't have to, but they often do.

If you keep your gun in your RV in self-defense-unfriendly States, I suggest you keep it in a locked container where they will need a warrant to open it. Keep yourself otherwise clean so as not to trigger 4th amendment seizure actions that would cause them to go through your vehicle like some bad version of a Canadian Mountie.

Rick
 
One attorney friend recommended a locked container, which was actually unable to be unlocked - One was required to actually break open the container. Of course, one may make the container relatively flimsy...

Many states require a pistol to be transported/stored separately from ammunition, sometimes in a locked container. Enter the styrofoam cooler with a lock attached, with the magazine nearby...
 
Vermont won't be a problem, at least.

As others have said, you are quite unlikely to be searched, unless, of course, you encounter a drug checkpoint.
 
How about buying a lock box and if you get pulled over, wifey's job is to lock it up when the blue lights come on.
It was locked up all along.... really!
 
Mike,
I'm an RVer, and this is what I do. Firearms can be transported anywhere in the US, as long as the gun and ammo are locked in separate containers. As soon as your RV is hooked up to camp site utilities, most states consider that your residence. As long as your loaded Cougar is legal for residents of that state to own, then the gun would be legal for you to posses INSIDE your RV, once you are hooked up.

I have an instant access safe in my RV. When I am traveling, I keep my UNLOADED handgun locked in the safe, with the ammo is a separate locked container. This may be overkill in some states, but at least I know that I am legal wherever I go. Once I am hooked up, I load the handgun, and put it back in the safe. Just don't let your neighbor see the gun, or they might have a hissy fit, and complain to Park Management (some parks have rules against firearms, as do ALL NATIONAL PARKS). When I go to bed, I put the loaded handgun on the night stand next to me (I don't have any young children to worry about). I do not RV in areas where handguns are illegal.

Just my .02
 
Come on down to Ga and if you don't have a gun we'll give you one! You can carry a gun in any vehicle without a permit loaded or unloaded. An RV or a motel is considered as the same as home. I was in a gunstore here several months ago and the female clerk was refusing to sell a Brit a hangun because he could not check yes to being a citizen on the yellow form. I intervened and we got the manager involved and a handgun was sold to the gentleman as he had been here for at least 90 days.
 
animal's idea has merit. If it's in a locked box (bolted to the vehicle) or a locked cabinet, and the LEO decides he's going to search, simply DON'T open it unless and until the LEO provides you with a valid warrant...don't let him browbeat you, and never consent to a search. (A locked cabinet doesn't constitute probable cause to get a warrant, as far as I know.)

Anyway, keep a low profile, be discrete, and keep the pistol out of sight. (How often have you been stopped and searched, anyway?)
 
I've spoken with an awful lot of(not necessarily a lot of awful) RV'rs who travel throughout the south and the midwest states, and most every one of them is carrying some sort of hardware. I've not heard from any of them that they have ever had a problem with any LEOs raising a stink.
 
It's a shame that this is actually a question. How about this one: I am going to travel across the U.S. from one coast to the other, what are the laws that relate to my carring a leatherman on my hip....

It's a damned tool, nothing more, nothing less. Jeez, and people think I have a really bad thought process.

USP45usp

*Mike, I'm not a lawyer or even play one on T.V... the real question is this.. how much do you trust every human being on this earth? If you're like me, and I don't trust very much, screw the laws and just have fun. An RV has lots of places to store stuff, and you will fall under the 4th.. don't give permission and just go on your way.
 
Guys

Thanks for the responses.

USP45 - We think alike.

What exactly does the 4th Amendment guarantee, and if it concerns the right to free passage, isn't that all being overturned by these police roadblocks and the enforced vehicle searches that appear to be becoming more common in the US these days. My wifes relatives are making it sound as if the US is turning into some kind of police state, her uncle phoned last night and said something along the lines of "first they stick a machine gun in that Cuban kids face, now I get pulled over and ordered out of my car while this dog team search it and all the cars behind me too".

What the hell is going on over there guys ? This all sounds a little scary.

Mike H
 
If you intend to carry a handgun, just make sure you don't drive your RV into Canada! My retired parents were, at one time, full-time RVers. Every single time they crossed into Canada they were subjected to an intensive vehicle search.

Why? Texas license plates.

They belong to an organization for full-time RVer's that is based in Texas. Thus they have Texas license plates on the RV. The Canadian Border Agent, or whatever they call themselves, responded to my father's inquiry with a response along the lines of "Everyone from Texas carries a gun."

Have you thought of a shotgun for defensive purposes while travelling? Generally, a shotgun is viewed by others as more acceptable than a handgun. My folks carry a single shot 12ga in the RV. I wanted to give them a 20ga pump, but Dad is kind of partial to his old (60+ yr old) single. The sound of a pump action being racked is mighty intimidating to miscreants!
 
I think the drug checkpoint problem has been rendered moot by the Supreme Court:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=48068

As for
the lines of "Everyone from Texas carries a gun."
Click to expand...

Well, not yet -- but we're working on it. :D

I'll second the shotgun for the RV, Mike, and I'd put the pistol in one of those battery-powered lock boxes. Not because of problems with law enforcement, but because parked and empty RV's are such a tempting target for burglary-orientated critters.

LawDog
 
The odds against any search are greatly in your favor. It's actually a rather rare event--you've usually got to work at providing a cause, and a simple speeding ticket or burned-out tail-light just won't justify that. And that's a recent U.S. Supreme Court decision.

A generally neat and clean appearance goes a long way toward establishing yourself as a Good Guy. A pleasant and friendly attitude doesn't hurt, either--even if you don't feel particularly pleasant or friendly: Fake it!

In Texas, carrying a handgun in one's vehicle while travelling is legal. "Travelling" is a legal term established by court precedent as being out of one's home county, overnight.

In Florida, a handgun in one's car is legal if it is in view of a law enforcement official (E.g., in the event of a routine traffic stop.) If it's concealed in a car--I plead ignorance about how they treat RVs--then it's deep doodoo time.

All in all, though, a single-shot 12-gauge is quite adequate for personal protection. It's less frowned upon than a handgun, in many northeastern jurisdictions. And for Lord's sake, no, repeat no, handguns in Massachusetts! That's an automatic one year in jail.

Hope this helps, Art
 
I'm an RVer. The advice above to check the laws in each jurisdiction is good stuff. Having a lock box is also a good idea. I will also point out that the north-south Interstates, especially 95 and 75, are considered "drug corridors". It is not unusual for police to stop vehicles on these roads for a minor infraction and then ask for permission to search the vehicle. RVs are often targeted because of their carrying capacity and many places to hide stuff. Note that you do NOT have to give consent, and that if you do, they might take hours tearing the vehicle apart and leave it a mess when they find nothing.

If you choose not to consent, and they press the issue, keep asking if they have probable cause for a warrantless search, ask whether you're under arrest and on what charge, and if they still pressure you, tell them that unless you are being charged, you are leaving. If they do not let you leave, tell them you want a lawyer and stand mute. It's sad that the phony "war on drugs" makes it necessary for innocent people to be so defensive with public servants who are supposed to be on our side, but there it is.
 
Bait and switch games...

1) I'll second the recommendation for a 12ga. pump. Nothing could be finer, and it will almost assuradly be legal everywhere except DC, NYC and Massachusetts.

2) Don't worry about only having a .22 when the bears come around, unless you're considering a .357 or .44, then all the others will be about the same as a .22... shrug.

3) In addition to the shot gun, do get a handgun too, and if questioned by the ghestapo, "yes officer, i have a shotgun in here now. It is unloaded, would you like to see it?" ;) (note, handgun in seperate locked container, etc...)

Good luck on your vaca. Be sure to spend some time in NH and Maine (especially Acadia NP and Baxter SP.)
 
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