Handgun hunting question

S

Smaug

New member
The regulations specify that a handgun must be used for handgun hunting. I assume this is because traditional handguns calibers have a more limited range than traditional rifle calibers. (My home state, IL, allows handgun, shotgun, and blackpowder hunting but not centerfire rifle)

If that is the point, then why not allow rifles in traditional handgun calibers and disallow handguns in traditional rifle calibers?

As it is, I could have a 44 Magnum rifle and not be any more dangerous than if I had a handgun. The range would be extended somewhat by the higher velocities from the rifle barrel, but I would also be more accurate at longer ranges.

Also, if I had, for example, a T/C Encore in .308 or something, it would have nearly the same effective range as a conventional rifle.

If I were to carry a 44 Magnum rifle during handgun season, I'm sure I'd be in trouble, due to the letter of the law, but maybe not the intent.

I don't suppose I'd have any luck pushing this through my state government...

I guess IL is in the minority, or else they might be making 30-30s in rimfire to get by the requirements. :D
 
If I remember correctly southern Indiana is allowing rifles shooting pistol caliber cartridges for deer hunting now. I hope Iowa is soon to follow.

IMO, a lever or bolt action rifle is safer than hand guns do to the fact that hunters are more likely to hit what they am at and not spray lead all over the county. You do gain extended range and velocity which can cause some problems but the positives far out weigh the negatives. Also, the extended range is not any farther than today's repeating shotguns with thier rifled barrels and sabot slugs.

The possibility of what we are talking about is the main reason I'm holding off my purchase of a lever action rifle in hopes of finding a good deal on a .357 or .44 instead of settling on a 30-30 even though those can be had pretty cheap by comparison.

LK
 
range is determined by skill when it comes to handgun hunting. caliber determins, for the most part, energy.
I like a 158 gr JPF.
 
ringworm said:
range is determined by skill when it comes to handgun hunting. caliber determins, for the most part, energy.
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Well, I agree with some caveats. The worst case is a drunk hunter messing around, firing at 45° up into the air. In that case, I 30-06 will go for around 3 miles. I don't think a 44 Magnum will, no matter how skillful the shooter is. Maybe you meant "effective hunting range". Caliber determines energy and maximum range. (with the barrel length changing it a bit)
 
The regulations specify that a handgun must be used for handgun hunting.
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Well, duh! If it were not a handgun, you would not be handgun hunting! Handgun hunting requires shooters to get closer to their quarry, generally requiring more skill in shooting, and more fieldcraft.
If that is the point, then why not allow rifles in traditional handgun calibers and disallow handguns in traditional rifle calibers?
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Because it is handgun hunting! Handgun hunting requires more skill than rifle or shotgun hunting. Skill is gained through practice, and fieldcraft is gained through practice. No matter what the weapon chambering, you still have to get closer to hit what you are shooting at with a handgun. Rifle hunting, no matter what the cartridge used, still requires less skill in firing the weapon due to the steadiness and longer sight radius increasing accuracy.
Also, if I had, for example, a T/C Encore in .308 or something, it would have nearly the same effective range as a conventional rifle.
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No. Effective range is based on the ability of the shooter to hit a target of the expected size, in this case 6"-8". If I had a hand-held photon torpedo launcher, its effective range would still only be as good as the range at which I could expect to hit a 6" target, and some shooters would have a greater effective range with any handgun than I would.
If I were to carry a 44 Magnum rifle during handgun season, I'm sure I'd be in trouble, due to the letter of the law, but maybe not the intent.
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The intent of handgun season (much like muzzleloader and/or archery seasons) is to allow hunters to pursue game in a more challenging situation than pursuing it with a rifle, due to the shorter effective range of the weapon. Rifle season hunters still harvest the majority of the animals, so my take on it is that the intent is to not have people shooting at long range when there are people trying to get close to the animals. I would say that if you hunt with a rifle during handgun season, you are blatantly violating the law. But that's my opinion. If you disagree, petition your lawmakers to change the law.

Shotgun hunting is intended to limit the range at which stray projectiles could inadvertently strike a passer-by. With slugs, there is little or no incremental safety margin over a handgun or rifle. With buckshot, the maximum range of the pellets is around 300 yds or so, so the safety issue is real. But that's my opinion.
 
Scorch said:
No. Effective range is based on the ability of the shooter to hit a target of the expected size, in this case 6"-8". If I had a hand-held photon torpedo launcher, its effective range would still only be as good as the range at which I could expect to hit a 6" target, and some shooters would have a greater effective range with any handgun than I would.
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Again, we are thinking of "effective range" from two different perspectives. When the lawmakers in IL banned centerfire rifles for hunting, they were definitely thinking about the effective range of the ammo, not the shooter. The effective range of a photon torpedo, if it existed, would be far greater than that of a 44 Magnum.

The purpose of having separate seasons for archers, handgunners, and blackpowderers (;)) was as you you describe above. But the purpose of disallowing centerfire rifles stemmed from concerns of the effective range of typical centerfire rifle ammo.


Scorch said:
With slugs, there is little or no incremental safety margin over a handgun or rifle.
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This is not true, from the perspective of effective range of the round. Rifle bullets are not only traveling at higher velocities, but they are also more aerodynamic. A shotgun slug will not travel as far as a typical centerfire rifle round. It is simple physics. Because of the force of gravity, a projectile must travel in a parabolic shape. The faster the projectile and the more aerodynamic the projectile, the more stretched out the parabola becomes, and the longer the effective range. (of the round) We're not talking about the accuracy of the shooter or his fieldcraft. (Looking at it from a the state's perspective)
 
L_Killkenny is correct. Indiana is now allowed rifles in a handgun caliber.

But the way I understand it. The intent was to pass an open rifle season. Then they had to make concession. Sooo we ended up part of the way. We got rifles just not the bigger calibers. Maybe next time.
 
I think Scorch has got it all out of whack. If he had read the original post, he would understand that IL has NO centerfire rifle season and that the original post is questioning the reasoning behind allowing handguns in rifle cartridges but not rifles in handgun cartridges. That there is no discusson on the effective range for the hunter, but what the legislature considers to be the maximum range at which a cartridge is dangerous to others, should it miss its mark.

I agree, it makes absolutely no sense but that's not always a requirement with laws and regulations.
 
Ion371 - Do you know how that came to pass? I'd like to get IL heading down the same path. I guess I could start by writing to G. Rod, but I think he won't do it unless he could figure out how to soak more money out of hunting somehow.
 
Regulations?

Not bad Scorch.

I have hunted with a handgun here in Ohio since 1988 when they made it legal. There were only a few guns that could be used 357 .41 .44 .45 Colt 5" - 10" barell. it has gone throught may changes and now there are only 3 requirements. .357 or larger, strait walled casses, 5" min on the barell. You can not hunt with any cartrage that has a bottle neck design!! So I call up the ODNR and find out that I may hunt deer with a SSK contender 600 Nitro, but not a .243 Win. because of the shape of the case.

Some of the posters are right, they figure that a rifle caliber will have a longer reach on a miss, but this makes no sense to me as I sit in the woods Mon. morning and before daylight, here 3 12ga. slugs go off as fast as you can operate the action. I was explained by one of the game protectors that I know, most people who trade in their 870 for a .44 mag., and discover that they can't hit the deer at all are back with their 870 the next year. Very few people will take the time to practice enough to consistantly hit with a handgun. In 02 I hunted deer with my Lone Eagle in 444 Marlin and conected with one the first day.

I hope all these other states would give a little common sense when they make these laws, but I gues that might be too much to ask for.
 
Smaug said:
I don't suppose I'd have any luck pushing this though my state government...
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Smaug,
You don't know, until you try. There might be more people that are interested in the same thing getting past, if the question is proposed.

Try asking this question on a state hunting forum. Ohio has an Ohio Sportsman and Hunt Ohio website and a lot of these questions get started there. Also, try going to your regional game hearings, for updates about upcoming regulations and proposals....if you have them, Ohio does. :)

Good hunting, Bowhunter57
 
The reason (I think) that centerfire rifles were not allowed for deer hunting in some states was a safety concern in more populated areas. I recall seeing something in American Hunter which showed no apprisable difference in safety between a shotgun and rifle.

I use a Ruger 480 SRH for my whitetail handgun hunting. It brings back the thrill and more or less makes handgun hunting into kind of an archery season approach which I like. It is hard to shoot good enough at 50 yds let alone 100 yds as many claim. I wouldn't mind tring a TC Contender in 30-30 for whitetail hunting. Yes, you can definitely make 100 yd shots with a Contender from a good rest. I consider them to sort of a "handgun rifle". I'll stick to my 6-shooters and leave others to their Contenders.

Give handgun hunting a shot. It is fun.

I'd like to see some handguns allowed during black powder season. Black Powder rifles have gotten so accurate that it is almost like using a single shot centerfire rifle these days (almost).
 
so true

Mississippi has now allowed single shot break open exposed hammer .35 caliber or larger rifles during "muzzleloader" season.
Reason: lobbying by those guys that like to shoot Quigley style guns.
Last year it included a "type or style made before 1900 or replicas" and .38 caliber.
And most importantly the deer herd needs thinning. We are allowwed five does and two bucks. Even more if you apply for permits.
The Season is now four full months if you include bow hunting.
You can even use a crossbow during regular season. Under sixteen can use any rifle during 'MUZZLELOADER' SEASON.
Deer in the city, deer in the woods, deer everywhere.
 
Smaug
Ion371 - Do you know how that came to pass? I'd like to get IL heading down the same path. I guess I could start by writing to G. Rod, but I think he won't do it unless he could figure out how to soak more money out of hunting somehow
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Not really sure how they got it thru. I didn't know it was happening until it was done.

I would suggest checking with the NRA. From what I understand, they have people(lobbyist) in all states. That way they can keep up on Gun Laws sneaking thru and new proposals. Also check your state politicians and see who is gun friendly. If you can find one, ask him or her for advice.

I lived in central Illinois for 18 years. It is extremely flat. I imagine you would have fight to get rifles passed. Then again, you wont know until someone tries.

Lonny
 
Wyoming has wierd Handgun hunting laws. To hunt big game with a pistol, it has to be over 35 cal AND have a ME of 500 Ft lbs at 100 yards.

So you cant use a 30-30 in a TC but you can use a 44 mag. go figure.

Same with rifle, you have to have a .24 or better, 25-20 vs 223???, I guess some things are old fashion.
 
So what would states like IN, OH, IL, and such call a wildcat ctg such as the .357-44 Bain & Davis or something totally dreamt up by an RCBS fan and a shortened .30-30 case? Rifle? Pistol? Game Warden coin flip?
 
the rifle argument might pass as safety if it werent for the fact that there is no restriction on rifle caliber to hunt coyote in IL. i can use 308 on coyote but not a 243 on deer.
 
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