Handgun caliber effectiveness data

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playin' hookey

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Can anybody point me toward a data base of outcomes of actual handgun shootings, perhaps broken down by caliber? I carry an LCP and am interested in real world results of shootings using 380 ACP, in comparison to other calibers.
 
Thanks, I had seen that chart, and was skeptical of "one shot stop" data, if for no other reason than that most instances of handgun shootings involve more than one shot. I guess I was looking for a series of descriptions of actual shootings including caliber used and outcome. I see a lot about the 380 being a marginal caliber, and since a lot of 380s are carried in pockets these days I figured a few must have been used and was wondering if anybody had actually compiled a series of shooting outcomes.
 
The thing is, there are so many variables in the equation that leads to the outcome of any given shooting incident, it would be very hard to infer anything about a given round alone. The specific load and bullet type, barrel length of the firearm, size of the attacker, what the attacker is wearing, where the attacker is hit, what mental state the attacker is in, etc all has bearing on a given outcome, so in the end, it becomes hard to say that any outcome occurred solely because a .380 (or any other cartridge) was used.
 
The thing is, there are so many variables in the equation that leads to the outcome of any given shooting incident, it would be very hard to infer anything about a given round alone. The specific load and bullet type, barrel length of the firearm, size of the attacker, what the attacker is wearing, where the attacker is hit, what mental state the attacker is in, etc all has bearing on a given outcome, so in the end, it becomes hard to say that any outcome occurred solely because a .380 (or any other cartridge) was used.
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Great post Raftman.
 
cartridge effectiveness

Try the NYPD SOF-9 database. Bottom line is they concluded that caliber was not a significant factor in stopping police-perp shooting episodes. The only significant factor was shot placement.
 

Attachments

And there you have it.....

The FBI says caliber, caliber caliber.
The PD says "...ain't no big thing...." ** (pun intended and the Army 9mm motto)

Personally, I prefer a pre-expanded bullet -- something beginning with a '4' is always nice. :)







** Their idea of "shot placement" is to fill the air with lead... several magazines each if possible, in the sure and certain hope that one shot will "place." :cool:
 
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Salvadore's (Handloads.com) stats would send the clear message that the both the 125gr/357 Mag HydroShok and the 230gr 45ACP Hydroshok stand waaaaay out as the both reliable manstoppers. Neither surprise me.

My selection between the two would be controllability for any follow-on shot(s).
And there the 45/1911 works best in my hands.
 
Raftman is correct, there are a lot of variables, however I think it's safe to say that under a given set of conditions most of us would rather hit a BG with something that's as heavy and moving as fast as possible. I think the .380 is an adequate SD cartridge, especially if you are more likely to carry it because it's in a small lightweight gun.
 
A 380 which is rated at about 65% makes a perfectly acceptable pocket gun, sometimes it's all I have due to circumstances, and is a great companion to my full size 1911 carried IWB.;)
 
I look at it like this... if I get in a shooting, a litany of things have already defied 'statistics'. I don't want my last hope of survival to be anchored to them.
 
Thanks for the replies and links. It appears 380 ACP generally rates about two thirds for effectiveness. Since pocket carry is all I can manage, and I actually DO carry it, my LCP will have to do. Two thirds is better than zero. And I do believe that the importance of caliber is well below that of judgement and situational awareness.
 
caliber

Hookey, you are correct. Do a web search on the Mossad agents who used Beretta 70 22cal pistols in airplane hostage situations. They did very well indeed. A 22 is not my first choice but their history shows again the relative importance of shot placement vs caliber.
 
I know of a couple of major LEO agencies that thought it best to load FMJ flat point in their 380 handguns, (Win white box type.) The theory was reliable feeding and penetration. They considered the 380acp a run away gun / last ditch protection gun. I'm torn between the fmj theory and my current load of Ranger T series hp for my LCP. Looking at the Winchester chart for my current 380 load and eight inches of penetration does seem weak, (plus that's probably out of a 3.8 inch barrel, not my LCP barrel.)
 
Go to the following link and read the whole paper on wound ballistics:
http://www.mdtstraining.com/Wound_Ballistics_101.pdf

In a nutshell it states that caliber and the myths that go along with it such as "energy displacement" and "knockdown power" have little to no effect in reference to incapacitation. The only way to provide rapid incapacitation is a shot to the Central Nervous System. Even with a shot to the heart, the human body still has cognitive and physical function for 10-15 seconds. That's more than enough time to unload a full clip of ammo.

However, a larger bullet diameter does provide a greater chance of hitting a vital organ. That being said, in a scenario where you have to use your gun and everything is happening at the blink of an eye, the fundamentals of shooting such as proper sight alignment and trigger control are not likely to be onf the forefront of your mind. Therefore a larger diameter bullet will give you a slight extra edge (only 2mm if comparing 9mm and 45ACP) if your accuracy is not on par with what it would be at the range. However, the larger bullet diameter decreases the capacity of your firearm, so there is a tradeoff either way.

In summation, pick what makes you feel comfortable. It may be 7 rounds of 230gr 45 ACP in a 1911 or 19 rounds of 124gr 9mm +P in an XDM. Smaller guns will have a sacrifice in capacity as well.
 
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