Hammer down on a loaded .45ACP

  • Thread starter Thread starter PreserveFreedom
  • Start date Start date
P

PreserveFreedom

Guest
I have seen alot of posts about the dangers of carrying a 1911 style pistol in any condition other than cocked and locked. Now, I am not an armorer. I am not a gunsmith. I would like to give my honest opinion though and welcome anyone to comment after they look at my evidence.

My 1911 style pistol is a FireStorm (formerly Llama). When I remove the slide from the frame and remove the barrel from the slide here is what I have: I can take my finger and push the firing mechanism all of the way into the slide (from the end that the hammer strikes). When pushing it in all of the way, none of the firing pin extends toward where the chamber would be, if the weapon was assembled. This tells me that when my hammer is at rest with one in the pipe, no pressure is being exerted on the primer. I would feel confident that a blow to the back of the hammer would not result in a discharge. I welcome all of you that own a newer 1911 style pistol to disassemble it and see if this is true with your model. The primer seems to be struck with momentum created by the fallen hammer and not a direct strike. I do believe that this may not hold true with older 1911's and I do not wish to be liable for anyone's misfortunes.

Comments? :cool:
 
Just curious: why would you want to carry one with the hammer down?

If you're carrying concealed, readying the gun to fire from the hammer-down position is just an extra step, in a time of stress, to be taken before you can defend yourself.

Mine, when I'm not at the range, is kept in a small, bed-side gun vault, cocked and locked.

Any other time -- I don't carry my 1911 concealed -- its unloaded until I'm ready to fire.

When would you find hammer down on a loaded gun advantageous?


[This message has been edited by Walt Sherrill (edited September 10, 2000).]
 
It's just the way I carry all of my handguns. I draw, cock, and fire. Well, except for my Glock. I carry mine open so it's at my fingertips at all times.
 
Try pushing it in fast/hard to simulate dropping it on the hammer. Just because you cannot see the firing pin protrude by manually pushing on the back end of it doesn't mean that a blow to the hammer won't make it come into contact with the primer.
 
hickman, first of all, welcome to TFL. For replying to my post, I'll make you a senior member. *poof* There ya go!

Now, when the hammer is at rest in my 1911 style pistol, it is pushing the back of the firing mechanism flush with the framing of the slide, Therefore, the hammer will not go any further forward and there is still no pressure against the primer.
 
In that case you may be right, although I would like to ask someone versed in physics whether the fact they are in contact would allow some of the energy of a blow to be transmitted to the firing pin? In any event, thanks for elevating me to senior status. You are a wise and kind man. Regards.
 
Actually, I noticed that you had made 14 posts and you get to be a senior at 15. It sounded good anyway. ;)
 
PF; If your pistol were to fall and land on the hammer it is likely that it would fire.


------------------
You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."

Better days to be,

Ed
 
Ed, I don't think it would. By the way it looks on the inside, the hammer would have to bounce and land back down hard enough to shoot a spring loaded firing mechanism forward with enough momentum to ding the primer.
 
I am an Armorer and a LEO Firearms Instructor and there are several good reasons to carry in condition one (cocked & locked), rather than in Condition two as you describe. For one thing when the balloon goes up and you need your gun fast, your fine motor skills disappear and you become quite clumbsy. It is very easy to fumble, the act of cocking your hammer. Another thing, if you happend to accidentially snag the hammer on something, it can cause the gun to fire. You are correct about the firing pin not reaching the breech face, it is an inertia type firing pin and it has to be struck by the hammer, inorder for it to fly forward and strike the primer and fire the gun. There is no reason whatsoever to let the hammer down on a live round in a 1911. Don't do it, carry it cocked and locked or with the chamber empty and the mag loaded, (condition 3).

7th

------------------
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.

[This message has been edited by 7th Fleet (edited September 10, 2000).]
 
PF; The hammer does not have to fall. The firing pin return spring holds it against the hammer. A good rap to the hammer will transfer enough force to the pin to cause it to move and strike the primer.


------------------
You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."

Better days to be,

Ed
 
I'm with Seventh Fleet. If I were going to carry a handgun for self defense which I had to cock for the first round (and that first round is extermely important in a self defense situation) then I'd carry my Colt's Single Action in .45 Long Colt, 4 3/4" bbl.

For single action cocking, you can't beat that one. And, well, .45 L.C., with that 255 grain slug moving out at about 900 FPS at a bad guy....???

My carry gun is a Colt's Lightweight Commander... cocked and locked.

FWIW. J.B.
 
Cocked and locked is the *only* way to carry a 1911A1 IMHO. Carrying one up the spout with the hammer down is asking for trouble All it takes is a snag of the hammer on your clothing during presentation and you're gonna hurt yourself. When the sh** hits the fan my weapon ready..




------------------
Rick
 
How about carrying it with the slide locked back and the magazine out. That way all you'd have to do is get the mag, insert it into the gun, drop the slide and you're ready to go. That's not too complicated. :D

Sorry but it's been a long day and I felt a bit ornery.

------------------
The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!
 
Dont the series 80 and newer colts have a firing pin saftey so the pin can not move forward if the hammer gets struck? In the last 30 or so years I can not recall droping a autoloader with rounds in it,knock on wood. I carry my DA guns with the hammer down on a loaded chamber but use holsters that protect the hammer. :)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by radom:
Dont the series 80 and newer colts have a firing pin saftey so the pin can not move forward if the hammer gets struck? In the last 30 or so years I can not recall droping a autoloader with rounds in it,knock on wood. I carry my DA guns with the hammer down on a loaded chamber but use holsters that protect the hammer. :)[/quote]


DA revolvers (single action too) have a safety bar blocking the hammer from contacting the firing pin. That's a design innovation from the days of carrying a six shooter with one chamber empty.

No reason to carry a 1911 with the hammer down and one in the breech. You're asking for trouble even letting the hammer down on a loaded chamber. (That's why they invented decockers.)

You hit the hammer that's contacting the firing pin and the pin will move forward if the two pieces are in contact. That's basic physics.

Cocked, locked, and a thumb break holster is an extra measure of safety. I have a belt slide holster for the 1911 that sometimes gets my toes to curl a bit.

Colt recommends that you don't carry in Condition One. That's the book answer. It's mostly to cover their butts on liability.

Or you could carry cocked, unlocked, and no load in the breech. Racking is easier with the gun cocked. No thumb safety to release with this method. Just rack the slide.
 
OK, here's one point I don't see in the replies... I'll admit an ND.

I used to carry hammer down, UNTIL I put a round in the cieling lowering the hammer.

Don't think it won't or can't happen to you. One little slip, and BOOM.

Now I carry the way it was designed, cocked and locked. If you can't bring yourself to "trust" the safety, get a different weapon for everyday carry.
 
First, I see problems with carrying a 1911 with hammer down and a round in the chamber. If you plan on shooting the handgun, the hammer must be slowly dropped before it can be fired. Slowly dropping the hammer is a fine motor skill, and in the heat of the moment, it could be a very difficult maneuver. Perhaps better would be to carry with hammer down on an empty chamber with a full magazine. Racking a slide is more of a gross motor skill, and requires less precision than slowly dorpping the hammer. (FWIW, I carry coked and locked, and would not recommend either of the above carry options. I would carry a revolver or a double action semi-auto instead.)

Second, I see problems getting the handgun into a condition where the hammer is lowered onto a chambered round. IF the hammer is lowered slowly and carefully, the round will not go off, because the firing pin will be recessed. But that is a big IF. In order to lower the hammer, I must pull the trigger. The trigger's main job is to release the hammer and fire the gun. So by lowering the hammer, you start a procedure that is intended to FIRE THE GUN. It is indeed possible to put a bullet hole where you did not want a bullet hole simply by having your thumb slip off the hammer during the "hammer lowering" procedure.

[This message has been edited by Country Boy (edited September 11, 2000).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top