marine6680
New member
Put 100 trouble free rounds through the VP9 today.
Shot it after putting a box through the 1911, and the first shot through the VP9 made me think... "Where did the recoil go?" After a few more shots I got the feel for 9mm again.
It is comfortable in the hand and the controls are easy to use... I LOVE the paddle mag release.
It took me a few shots to get used to the trigger pull, but I did find the pistol to be accurate, when I actually tried for groups. I was mostly there to get rounds through it to make sure it would function properly... And it did so with no drama or fuss.
The fiance was with me, and her first three shots were basically one hole. She said she shifted her aim after because she wasn't sure if she was hitting the target, which is why the next couple of shots were in a different place. After she got used to the idea of one hole, she adjusted her aim to the POI the pistol hit at, and she ate up the center of the target. She does not usually shoot ragged hole groups with handguns other than her Mkiii, she tends to group in the 3-6in range at 7yds depending on the gun. Her CZ is about 3in, her Shield is 6in with occasional fliers. Even then, most pistols take her several shots to get into the groove, so the first half a mag will be larger grouping than all the rest. This applies to strikers mostly, she does better with our hammer fired pistols quicker.
She showed me up today with accuracy... even though I was not going for groups and rather just function and feel... and having fun slinging lead down range quickly, I still like to shoot better than I did. She tends to fire more deliberately than I do for her entire time shooting.
I blame it on it being my first time with the pistol... When I slowed down for one mag, I did shoot better.
The fiance on the other hand... that pistol just works for her. So I may loose that pistol to her. Meaning she got a 1911 and H&K this weekend.
I like the pistol, but I prefer my M&P with (tweaked my way) Apex FFS. I also like and shoot my g19 better, and did so from the start. (after all those years of Glock hate... which I feel like an *** for... and I feel a little dirty for liking them too)
The times I have shot a PPQ, I have done well... One was already on the short list, but now I need to find an M1, because of how much I like the paddle release. I always knew I liked it, but after using it other than in a store, I do love it.
The fiance's Sig p320, I like the trigger better, and I shoot it better as well.
So I think I need to get a few hundred more rounds through the VP9, so I can do a more extensive testing. This was just an initial thoughts thread based on my first outing with the pistol. I do feel that in a pinch, I could use this pistol well enough if need be, just need some more practice with it.
Some observations about the VP9:
(reposted from my other "announcement thread")
I have looked everything over well... and I think I have a good handle on how things work on the VP9.
Things like the trigger disconnect, sear engagement, striker block, the safety to prevent disassembly with a mag inserted, and the method used to allow disassembly without pulling the trigger.
Its a odd trigger design to be sure. Its simple in parts, but complex in geometries.
The trigger bar rides a camming surface of the trigger disconnect lever, to align it with a connector, that lowers the sear when it is pushed rearward by the trigger bar.
The striker block is different in that it moves laterally rather than vertically like every other pistol. A nub on the trigger bar activates it just like other pistols, but it moves to the side. Its a rotating lever rather than a plunger moving up.
The disconnect works much like other pistols, A metal tab rides in a cutout on the slide, and when the slide moves, the tab is pushed down as the cutout moves away... But instead of being part of the trigger bar, it is a separate lever that pushes down on a tab of the trigger bar to disconnect it from the connector. The tab on the trigger bar is the same one that follows the cam surface to align the trigger bar and connector.
The safety that prevents the takedown lever from moving if a mag is inserted is a simple lever that rotates and blocks the takedown lever when a mag lifts it up.
The way it allows disassembly without pulling the trigger once again involves the trigger disconnect bar... When the takedown lever is rotated, the trigger bar moves slightly to allow a tab on it to sit over a tab on the side of the sear. When you push the slide forward, the disconnect pushes down on the trigger bar as it would when the slide cycles when firing, and because of the sear tab, the sear is also pushed down. This makes sliding off the slide a bit stiff, but it is slowly getting easier to do.
Comparison of the trigger to other pistols I own.
Sig p320, since so many compare these pistols... The VP9 has a little more overall travel. It also has more takeup, but less overtravel. The Sig has a clean break, and a slightly notchy feel during the take up, as the striker block is engaged. The VP9 has some creep before the break, and the feel is a little gritty. I only notice the gritty feeling when pulling very slow, and it is caused by the trigger bar following the cam surface. A little grease on that surface smoothed it out a little. (its actually hidden, and needed to use a pick to get a little down in there) I would give the Sig the edge here.
My FS M&P with polished parts and a tweaked Apex FSS... no contest, the M&P overall travel is half or a little less than the VP9. With a crisp clean break and smooth pull.
M&P9c, with polished and tuned stock trigger, and apex poly replacement trigger... Similar overall travel, take up, and over travel. The M&P has a crisper/cleaner break.
Stock M&P trigger... The VP9 is better by a good amount. A stock M&P trigger is notchy/stagey and has a good bit of creep. Overall travel is longer. The trigger on them seems like it flexes and makes getting a good feel of the trigger more difficult. Which is why I do work on the triggers of my M&Ps.
Glock 19 with tuned trigger... Very similar actually. The glock trigger take up is stiffer due to the need to finish cocking the striker as you pull the trigger, but final pull weight is lighter.
I do like the ability to swap out side plates and the backstrap. All the various combinations had their merits, but I stuck with the simple Medium setu as it comes from the factory. It seemed a good overall feel that many would be happy with.
Interestingly... even though the VP9 is about 1/8 inch shorter than the Sig 320 FS, there is more "grip". The VP9 grip reaches lower on my palm. Its due to the overall grip design, and bore height differences. Both are comfortable though.
Obligatory and gratuitous pic (a requirement as Tunnelrat reminded me)
Edit:
I did a grip comparison between my pistols, and grip angle comparison as well. I compared them to a 1911 as a control/yardstick. One that many would be familiar with.
A few things struck me right away...
1) My FS pistols were as tall, or very close to, the 1911. They were all slightly shorter in length, in varying amounts.
2) The 1911 has a rediculusly high bore axis... significantly higher than even the Sig 226 (and other Sigs as well like my 320) which everyone loves to hate on over higher bore axis... I don't hear people complaining about the bore axis on a 1911... And it fires a heavier recoiling round.
3) The grips on the other pistols compared to the 1911, were longer due to the lower bore axis, meaning they filled more of my palm. The 1911 reaches about halfway down the lower lobe/swell of my palm. Even my g19 reaches a little farther down.
4) All the grip angles were actually pretty close.
5) The backstrap shape/design had more impact on how the gun pointed for me than the relative angle, which is usually measured from the centerline of the grip and is perpendicular to the front strap.
The Glock grip angle on a gen 4, is larger than the 1911 angle, but side by side the difference is not much even at the very end of the grip where the diverging angles reach maximum separation.
The H&K VP9 grip angle is close to but a little larger than a 1911. Very similar, but a difference exists.
The Sig grip angle is lower... more vertical... than a 1911. Not as big of a difference as the Glock angle, but more than the VP9 was.
The M&P matches the 1911 grip angle pretty much dead on.
Same for the CZ, though it is ever so slightly lower.
Grips I really love... The Sig 226, and the CZ75.
Grips I love but not as much... The M&P with Med backstrap and 1911. The 1911 squeaks by on nostalgia and reputation... The standard grips are nice, but I need some different grip panels, probably G10, and a mag well to help fill up my palm better, for me to really love it.
Grips I really like... The Sig 320, g17 gen 4, VP9 with small backstrap and med sides.
Grips I like and can't complain about much... g19 gen 4 with trigger guard undercut, VP9 with medium backstrap and sides.
Since this is mostly about the VP9, here is my take on its grip.
...The medium backstrap has just a little too much hump to it.
... The Small backstrap makes the pistol feel a little small, but good otherwise.
... The shallow finger grooves are just slightly annoying. Not as annoying as a g17 finger grooves, a little better still for a g19 gen 4 with undercut, and definitely much better than the g19 without an undercut.
The smooth feel and good palm filling grip on the M&P is what wins me over with it... It is my favorite, and most comfortable poly framed striker pistol.
Shot it after putting a box through the 1911, and the first shot through the VP9 made me think... "Where did the recoil go?" After a few more shots I got the feel for 9mm again.
It is comfortable in the hand and the controls are easy to use... I LOVE the paddle mag release.
It took me a few shots to get used to the trigger pull, but I did find the pistol to be accurate, when I actually tried for groups. I was mostly there to get rounds through it to make sure it would function properly... And it did so with no drama or fuss.
The fiance was with me, and her first three shots were basically one hole. She said she shifted her aim after because she wasn't sure if she was hitting the target, which is why the next couple of shots were in a different place. After she got used to the idea of one hole, she adjusted her aim to the POI the pistol hit at, and she ate up the center of the target. She does not usually shoot ragged hole groups with handguns other than her Mkiii, she tends to group in the 3-6in range at 7yds depending on the gun. Her CZ is about 3in, her Shield is 6in with occasional fliers. Even then, most pistols take her several shots to get into the groove, so the first half a mag will be larger grouping than all the rest. This applies to strikers mostly, she does better with our hammer fired pistols quicker.
She showed me up today with accuracy... even though I was not going for groups and rather just function and feel... and having fun slinging lead down range quickly, I still like to shoot better than I did. She tends to fire more deliberately than I do for her entire time shooting.
I blame it on it being my first time with the pistol... When I slowed down for one mag, I did shoot better.
The fiance on the other hand... that pistol just works for her. So I may loose that pistol to her. Meaning she got a 1911 and H&K this weekend.
I like the pistol, but I prefer my M&P with (tweaked my way) Apex FFS. I also like and shoot my g19 better, and did so from the start. (after all those years of Glock hate... which I feel like an *** for... and I feel a little dirty for liking them too)
The times I have shot a PPQ, I have done well... One was already on the short list, but now I need to find an M1, because of how much I like the paddle release. I always knew I liked it, but after using it other than in a store, I do love it.
The fiance's Sig p320, I like the trigger better, and I shoot it better as well.
So I think I need to get a few hundred more rounds through the VP9, so I can do a more extensive testing. This was just an initial thoughts thread based on my first outing with the pistol. I do feel that in a pinch, I could use this pistol well enough if need be, just need some more practice with it.
Some observations about the VP9:
(reposted from my other "announcement thread")
I have looked everything over well... and I think I have a good handle on how things work on the VP9.
Things like the trigger disconnect, sear engagement, striker block, the safety to prevent disassembly with a mag inserted, and the method used to allow disassembly without pulling the trigger.
Its a odd trigger design to be sure. Its simple in parts, but complex in geometries.
The trigger bar rides a camming surface of the trigger disconnect lever, to align it with a connector, that lowers the sear when it is pushed rearward by the trigger bar.
The striker block is different in that it moves laterally rather than vertically like every other pistol. A nub on the trigger bar activates it just like other pistols, but it moves to the side. Its a rotating lever rather than a plunger moving up.
The disconnect works much like other pistols, A metal tab rides in a cutout on the slide, and when the slide moves, the tab is pushed down as the cutout moves away... But instead of being part of the trigger bar, it is a separate lever that pushes down on a tab of the trigger bar to disconnect it from the connector. The tab on the trigger bar is the same one that follows the cam surface to align the trigger bar and connector.
The safety that prevents the takedown lever from moving if a mag is inserted is a simple lever that rotates and blocks the takedown lever when a mag lifts it up.
The way it allows disassembly without pulling the trigger once again involves the trigger disconnect bar... When the takedown lever is rotated, the trigger bar moves slightly to allow a tab on it to sit over a tab on the side of the sear. When you push the slide forward, the disconnect pushes down on the trigger bar as it would when the slide cycles when firing, and because of the sear tab, the sear is also pushed down. This makes sliding off the slide a bit stiff, but it is slowly getting easier to do.
Comparison of the trigger to other pistols I own.
Sig p320, since so many compare these pistols... The VP9 has a little more overall travel. It also has more takeup, but less overtravel. The Sig has a clean break, and a slightly notchy feel during the take up, as the striker block is engaged. The VP9 has some creep before the break, and the feel is a little gritty. I only notice the gritty feeling when pulling very slow, and it is caused by the trigger bar following the cam surface. A little grease on that surface smoothed it out a little. (its actually hidden, and needed to use a pick to get a little down in there) I would give the Sig the edge here.
My FS M&P with polished parts and a tweaked Apex FSS... no contest, the M&P overall travel is half or a little less than the VP9. With a crisp clean break and smooth pull.
M&P9c, with polished and tuned stock trigger, and apex poly replacement trigger... Similar overall travel, take up, and over travel. The M&P has a crisper/cleaner break.
Stock M&P trigger... The VP9 is better by a good amount. A stock M&P trigger is notchy/stagey and has a good bit of creep. Overall travel is longer. The trigger on them seems like it flexes and makes getting a good feel of the trigger more difficult. Which is why I do work on the triggers of my M&Ps.
Glock 19 with tuned trigger... Very similar actually. The glock trigger take up is stiffer due to the need to finish cocking the striker as you pull the trigger, but final pull weight is lighter.
I do like the ability to swap out side plates and the backstrap. All the various combinations had their merits, but I stuck with the simple Medium setu as it comes from the factory. It seemed a good overall feel that many would be happy with.
Interestingly... even though the VP9 is about 1/8 inch shorter than the Sig 320 FS, there is more "grip". The VP9 grip reaches lower on my palm. Its due to the overall grip design, and bore height differences. Both are comfortable though.
Obligatory and gratuitous pic (a requirement as Tunnelrat reminded me)
Edit:
I did a grip comparison between my pistols, and grip angle comparison as well. I compared them to a 1911 as a control/yardstick. One that many would be familiar with.
A few things struck me right away...
1) My FS pistols were as tall, or very close to, the 1911. They were all slightly shorter in length, in varying amounts.
2) The 1911 has a rediculusly high bore axis... significantly higher than even the Sig 226 (and other Sigs as well like my 320) which everyone loves to hate on over higher bore axis... I don't hear people complaining about the bore axis on a 1911... And it fires a heavier recoiling round.
3) The grips on the other pistols compared to the 1911, were longer due to the lower bore axis, meaning they filled more of my palm. The 1911 reaches about halfway down the lower lobe/swell of my palm. Even my g19 reaches a little farther down.
4) All the grip angles were actually pretty close.
5) The backstrap shape/design had more impact on how the gun pointed for me than the relative angle, which is usually measured from the centerline of the grip and is perpendicular to the front strap.
The Glock grip angle on a gen 4, is larger than the 1911 angle, but side by side the difference is not much even at the very end of the grip where the diverging angles reach maximum separation.
The H&K VP9 grip angle is close to but a little larger than a 1911. Very similar, but a difference exists.
The Sig grip angle is lower... more vertical... than a 1911. Not as big of a difference as the Glock angle, but more than the VP9 was.
The M&P matches the 1911 grip angle pretty much dead on.
Same for the CZ, though it is ever so slightly lower.
Grips I really love... The Sig 226, and the CZ75.
Grips I love but not as much... The M&P with Med backstrap and 1911. The 1911 squeaks by on nostalgia and reputation... The standard grips are nice, but I need some different grip panels, probably G10, and a mag well to help fill up my palm better, for me to really love it.
Grips I really like... The Sig 320, g17 gen 4, VP9 with small backstrap and med sides.
Grips I like and can't complain about much... g19 gen 4 with trigger guard undercut, VP9 with medium backstrap and sides.
Since this is mostly about the VP9, here is my take on its grip.
...The medium backstrap has just a little too much hump to it.
... The Small backstrap makes the pistol feel a little small, but good otherwise.
... The shallow finger grooves are just slightly annoying. Not as annoying as a g17 finger grooves, a little better still for a g19 gen 4 with undercut, and definitely much better than the g19 without an undercut.
The smooth feel and good palm filling grip on the M&P is what wins me over with it... It is my favorite, and most comfortable poly framed striker pistol.
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