http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...amous-Nazi-leader-Hermann-G-ring-auction.html
Thought you would be interested !!
Thought you would be interested !!
H.Goring's PPK
- Thread starter mete
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Model12Win
Moderator
Sorry, but I think I'd rather have Ted Bundy's boot gun. Talk about a gem! 
Bill DeShivs
New member
The grips are ivory, and the embellishment is of the finest German quality.
Because you don't understand the work doesn't mean it's not excellent.
Typical British drivel- Initials "stamped" on the grip, gold-plated cufflinks (they are solid 18K gold.
Because you don't understand the work doesn't mean it's not excellent.
Typical British drivel- Initials "stamped" on the grip, gold-plated cufflinks (they are solid 18K gold.
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carguychris
New member
Additionally, there are TWO pistols pictured in the article – note the plastic grips and still-visible Walther slide legend on the pistol in the bottom picture.jonnyc said:
There's obviously more to this story than what's related in the brief article. Of course, Göring was the type who's unlikely to own just one of anything he likes, so I surmise that he had multiple guns in his personal effects.
(As a footnote, this gun looks exactly something I would picture Göring owning, given his tendencies towards flamboyance and elaborate self-aggrandizement.)
Indeed. They even slightly mistranslated the inscription in the ring...
Finely finished highly engraved guns were made by several German gunmakers and presented to numerous Nazi officials, Goering owned a number of firearms, including some American ones.
It may very well be that this PPK came from Goering's estate, but I highly doubt he personally handed it to Lt Shapiro as the article implies. Numerous verified sources state Goering was carrying a revolver (an American .38) when captured.
From the price being asked, I have no doubt that there is enough verified documentation that this is a gun made for, and that Goering owned. But its not the gun HE "surrendered" when he was captured.
Patton was attributed have have said something to the effect that, "Only a New Orleans pimp would carry a pearl handled gun." However, gun historians have claimed that, indeed Patton did own at least one pearl stocked gun...but it was not one of those he was photographed carrying in WWII.
There are two PPKs pictured in the article, the second one, the one with the Walther marked grips (and that looks a bit shabby) has this caption..
So, we have two obviously different gold plated "Goering" guns. And the author's statement that the second gun was personally handed over to the LT
by Goering.
However, this is at odds with the well documented fact (including FILM of the event) that when captured, Goering surrendered a revolver.
That revolver was a SMITH & WESSON M&P .38 Special, one of several that were shipped to Germany for commercial sale in 1936.
There are a LOT of "faked" Nazi artifacts, and while I'm not saying this is, the description given by the author of the article seems at odds with history as we know it.
So, we have two obviously different gold plated "Goering" guns. And the author's statement that the second gun was personally handed over to the LT
by Goering.
However, this is at odds with the well documented fact (including FILM of the event) that when captured, Goering surrendered a revolver.
That revolver was a SMITH & WESSON M&P .38 Special, one of several that were shipped to Germany for commercial sale in 1936.
There are a LOT of "faked" Nazi artifacts, and while I'm not saying this is, the description given by the author of the article seems at odds with history as we know it.
Göring had a large gun collection, most of which he kept at Carinhall, his estate north of Berlin. He ordered the estate destroyed and the mansion and other buildings blown up by Luftwaffe troops in April 1945 before it was overrun by the Russians. Presumably the collection was destroyed/dispersed at that time.
But it is certainly possible that both Walthers could have belonged the the Luftwaffe chief; it was common for admirers of "Der Dicke" ("Fatso") to present guns to him on his birthday or other occasions, and Fritz Walther was going to miss a chance to curry more favor with the man who helped make him rich.
Jim
But it is certainly possible that both Walthers could have belonged the the Luftwaffe chief; it was common for admirers of "Der Dicke" ("Fatso") to present guns to him on his birthday or other occasions, and Fritz Walther was going to miss a chance to curry more favor with the man who helped make him rich.
Jim
Dicke Hermann (thick Hermann) was a noted sportsman, in the German aristocratic tradition. It was one of the many things that set him apart from the majority of the Nazi party leadership, who were from lower class backgrounds. He was also famous for his art collection, and infamous for the way much of it was acquired (looted from conquered nations).
Two gold & engraved presentation PPKs?? possible I suppose, but it seems unlikely both were intended for him originally. One certainly is, with his initials and family crest, the other? Who knows. It might have been made up for someone else, originally (note the slightly "lesser" grade of the second gun, without (visible) personal identifiers and essentially standard grips) and it somehow wound up in Goering's collection.
Because the guns are slightly different, it argues that they were not a set, and Goering probably acquired them at different times, assuming, of course, that both or either actually was something he once owned.
Anyway, I probably shouldn't be taking the word of a British internet tabloid writer as gospel...gotta run, don't want to miss the auction of pieces of the true Cross, and the Ark of Covenant...
as to this..
There absolutely ARE such things as family crests /coats of arms. The world is full of them. Most European ones date from the age of Heraldry, but they are real, and were all created by someone, at some time. Had Goering been on the winning side, the crest he created might have become an established part of history, instead of a footenote, as an example of his egotism.
Two gold & engraved presentation PPKs?? possible I suppose, but it seems unlikely both were intended for him originally. One certainly is, with his initials and family crest, the other? Who knows. It might have been made up for someone else, originally (note the slightly "lesser" grade of the second gun, without (visible) personal identifiers and essentially standard grips) and it somehow wound up in Goering's collection.
Because the guns are slightly different, it argues that they were not a set, and Goering probably acquired them at different times, assuming, of course, that both or either actually was something he once owned.
Anyway, I probably shouldn't be taking the word of a British internet tabloid writer as gospel...gotta run, don't want to miss the auction of pieces of the true Cross, and the Ark of Covenant...
as to this..
There absolutely ARE such things as family crests /coats of arms. The world is full of them. Most European ones date from the age of Heraldry, but they are real, and were all created by someone, at some time. Had Goering been on the winning side, the crest he created might have become an established part of history, instead of a footenote, as an example of his egotism.
True but lucky for us he ended up in an oven along with a bunch of his cronies and their dust was dumped into a secret location on a river some place.
When I see crap like this gun no matter what art work was put into it I wish it had gone into the oven with him.
The only bad thing about his death was that he cheated the hang man.
\
On THIS point, we disagree. Items such as these should not go to the ovens, the smelter or the crusher. Because if they do, we will forget about them, and the actual history they represent.
The evils that a totalitarian government can do must NEVER be forgotten!!!
Though a quarter million $+ is barking ridiculous for any PPK!
I think historical objects need to be judged on their own, not solely on the reputation of a previous owner. If every object were deemed "impure" and destroyed because of some owner's actions or reputation, we would lose a lot of our history. A recent example was the rant I read a month or so ago demanding that Mt. Vernon be burned to the ground and every object, including money, with Washington's name or picture be destroyed because he owned slaves.
Let's stop that kind of nonsense and be glad that neither the Nazi philosophy nor slavery prevailed.
Jim
Let's stop that kind of nonsense and be glad that neither the Nazi philosophy nor slavery prevailed.
Jim
What this does is to highlight what a superb gun collector he was as well as an art collector and for the unknowing makes him better than he was.
There is no lacking in history of the clown or the terrible things he did, I just don't like people making large sums of money from the history of the POS that is responsible for close to 12 million lives.
I am not Jewish, but would be proud to be one, All of my grand parents were German born. My father was at Dachau when it was liberated and he told of stories when he walked though the camp that's hard to believe.
I have visited several of the death camps. Goring was responsible for tuning murder into a factory process that could handle thousands in hours.
Sorry if I have turned this into a history discussion but this gun is little more that someone trying to sell the Lamp shade that the wife of the commandant of Dachau had. Beautiful it was. Made from the skin off the back of a prisoner. A tattoo made a wonderful lamp shade.
I am sorry but I have a hard time comparing a slave owner to Goring. And its your opinion that its nonsense. I feel its nonsense to make a big deal about the gun he once owned no matter how beautiful.
I will make no further comments on this thread since what I have said is considered nonsense and directed to say no more.
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Interestingly enough, fat Hermann's favorite sidearm was a good ole S & W m&p 38 special, with a 4" tapered barrel.
That is likely the sidearm shown in the photo. The holster shown is definitely NOT for a PPK....but rather, for a mid-sized revolver with a barrel approx. 4 to 5 inches in length.
That is likely the sidearm shown in the photo. The holster shown is definitely NOT for a PPK....but rather, for a mid-sized revolver with a barrel approx. 4 to 5 inches in length.