Gunsmiths

J

jersurf101

New member
I have hesitated to post this as it may be taken as a rant but I believe it to be a cautionary story.

I bought a Rossi 92 16 inch barreled. 357 magnum right before the second panic. 2011 I believe. I love the gun over all but the action was tight and it has problems feeding .38 specials. When you rack the lever sometimes it will eject a live round or two about five feet and leave an empty chamber. The rifle functions flawlessly with .357 magnums.

After researching local gunsmith I settled on K and S gunsmithing out of Carlocke, Illinois. I overpaid a bit by the market at the time but worth it to me to make sure I get quality work. Unfortunately what ensued was anything but. The first time ever I received the rifle back the first time I fired it the ejector shot into the chamber and jammed the rifle so badly the range owner took pity on me and disassembled the rifle so I would not have to drive home with it with rounds in the tube.

This is where I am to blame and I gave the rifle back to him two more times. Neither time would the rifle fire. The firing pin was not hitting the primer. At this point I moved to NC and was so upset I didn't even want to know what was wrong with the rifle and figured it was FUBARed.

Fast forward to two weeks ago and I finally worked up the courage to take it to a local gunsmith who was able to fix the problem, safety plunger installed upside down and the rifle was stuck on safe. That was it! The rifle was fixed. He also said that "there was a lot of polishing on parts that had nothing to do with the action."

Hmmmmmm...... not shocking. I called K and S and nicely explained what had happened and politely asked for the price of the gunsmithing fee to fix it, NOT my original money back. About a third of what I had originally paid. He told me to call back because he had a customer coming in. Now my calls are avoided, go figure. I am just glad to have the rifle back. I understand technical errors and mistakes but dishonest business practices are unacceptable to me and that is why I have posted the name of the business here.

Be careful choosing choosing a gunsmith. The can take a perfectly operable weapon and turn it into a paperweight.
 
Finding a good gunsmith is not easy. They are scarce around here and the good ones are very backed up.
 
Agreed. This gentlemen had his hours of formal training/schooling and some of his work available to look at on his website and holds an FFL. I took that as a good sign. You just never know.
 
"...has problems feeding .38 Specials..." That's a fairly common thing with .357 lever actions. As I recall, it's something about the OAL of the .38 vs the .357 that causes it. Nothing to do with the action being tight.
However, the smithy issue is a guy claiming he can fix stuff that isn't fixable due it being a design flaw. Certainly helps to assemble the thing correctly though.
Holding an FFL really proves nothing. An FFL is mostly a dealer's permit. Neither does "hours of formal training/schooling". Moreso if said schooling was done by correspondence/video, et al.
 
So did the local guy get it to shoot .38s?

T. is correct, getting a lever action to run with shorter than standard cartridges can be a challenge. There are bullets made to seat a bit long so you can use cheap .38 brass in .357 lever actions. Common in CAS.
 
I have not shot it enough since getting it back to figure that out. I ran maybe 20 .38s through it with no issues the day I got it back. The local guy recommended sticking to .357s if I was having issues. I have about triple the amount of .38 cases to .357 cases to load, maybe 1200 or so. It would be nice if I could use them but not the end of the world.
 
I talk to a gunsmith first, try to see if he is really a "gunsmith" or just a parts changer, in my readings it seems "johnsmiths" go overboard on polishing because they think that is what "professionals" do and it is a Q&E cure-all. Or changing springs .How knowledgeable is he on the various makes of guns ? Is he a good machinist, willing to make parts if he can't find them ?
A year ago I needed a new muffler-turned out a whole exhaust system-for my 1986 (!) Oldsmobile. Took it to the nearby Pep Boys-"Sorry, too, old.", Rayco said the same thing. Took it to my regular garage, a little distant. "No problem." Needed fuel and brake lines-"No problem, we'll make them." Paid a little more but for superior workmanship.
One of the marks of a true professional is they point out things you never even thought of. Or overlooked. Like a good mechanic, they are a good diagnostician.
 
I guess I'm lucky then, I developed a friendship with my smith and saw a lot of his examples of work before I had him do things for me.

Simple stuff first, then refinish work, then barrel setbacks and rechambering, and then some custom work.

I have some of his matte blue, polished blue, parkerizing, and have been pleased with everything he has done for me.

It has been a worthwhile friendship and business relationship well worth the time to cultivate.

On the custom stuff I tell him what I want to achieve, and if I miss something he suggests the way or parts to get where I want to go.

I would not hesitate to take him anything to work on.
I like his Quality work, and craftsmanship.
 
Agreed. This gentlemen had his hours of formal training/schooling and some of his work available to look at on his website and holds an FFL.
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It's required to have an FFL if you are going to be a gunsmith and keep the gun overnight in your shop, anyway that's the way it was explained to me by the ATF inspector that came to my place before I opened my shop.

So having an FFL does not make one a gunsmith. Even though I specialized in making custom 1911 pistols, being in a rural area I worked on about everything. I've made some obsolete parts on my mill and lathe for old rifles and revolvers, most of the time this is not cost effective to the client.

At one time I had a backlog measured in years, worked many late hours in the shop trying to get caught up.
I was always up front and honest with clients, that's what built my business.
I still get calls about every day even though I'm retired and closed the shop.

I glad everything worked out for the good.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
Six weeks ago I couldn't even spell gunsmith and now I are one.

Unfortunately a good smith, a smith who can actually fabricate parts and understands the design and inner workings of guns are rare or more like extinct. I had a shop during the early to mid 90s and most of the best gunsmiths I used are long gone. I did the work I was comfortable with and anything exceeding my skill levels I handed off to other gunsmiths whose skills far exceeded my own. Like many I have seen guns destroyed by so called gunsmiths and as mentioned the remaining smiths have a backlog.

I have an M1 Garand operating rod sitting here. Came off a Garand a customer brought in. A so called gunsmith took a grinder to it. Check out these images:
Rods2.png


Rods3.png


The upper operating rod is what a M1 Garand operating rod should look like. The lower rod was literally butchered. The responsible gun shop would not return the customer's money. They charged him a few hundred bucks to destroy his gun. People need to know their limitations, especially when working on guns.

Ron
 
People need to know their limitations, especially when working on guns.
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Very true.
If I had to farm something out I made sure the client knew that and was comfortable with me doing so.
There's two things I farmed out welding (not silver brazing) and finishes such as hard chroming and bluing after I sold my bluing tanks.
However I still preferred doing my own metal prep for the finish.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
I will try loading the .38s longer. Good idea.
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^^^This. .357 levers not wanting to feed short .38s is a problem with most all brands of .357 levers. Nature of the beast. For the most part , the original gunsmith should have told you this before they worked on your gun, if they knew anything at all about handgun caliber levers. Buying a few more .357 cases would have probably been a lot less expensive and frustrating than the experience you had.
 
Agreed. This gentlemen had his hours of formal training/schooling and some of his work available to look at on his website and holds an FFL. I took that as a good sign. You just never know.
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As mentioned, doesn't mean TOO much. That said, though, he might be one who has a lot of successful experience working on other guns. As an example, I know one gent who only works on shotguns - no rifles or handguns. He has the skills, he just has his preferences (and enough of a backlog) he doesn't have to go outside his comfort zone. There are others, like another one I knew out West who does 1911s only - both building, repairing and customizing and another who, while he worked on everything, found his niche with silhouette and bench rest shooters building and customizing their guns.

I am surprised you couldn't find a decent NC smith near you.
 
You cannot turn on a gunboard without seeing a recommendation to have any used gun "checked out by a qualified gunsmith."
If everybody did that, there would have to be a gunsmith next door to every liquor store or church, whichever your town has more of.
 
I lived in Bloomington Illinois at the time. I moved back to NC further complicating the debacle. The owner of K and S came well recommended but the truth came out in the wash.

I have found a good gunsmith here so that is nice. I am always a fan when people are honest about their limitations. That is respectable.

I took the gun out yesterday and she ran very slick with 158 plated .357s over unique.
 
Expecting any particular gunsmith to understand and have experience with a particular gun, or all guns is likely asking more than what is reasonable inasmuch as there are so many different guns and problems specific to each gun. A top 1911 gunsmith may not be an "expert" on the problems of an M1 Garand for example. Just because someone hangs out his "Gunsmith" shingle does not mean that they can remedy any problem you are having with your gun. "You's pays your dollar and you's takes you's chances." Nevertheless, when you have a problem with your gun, before you turn it over to the gunsmith, ask him about his experience with that model of gun and some of the common causes of the problems you are having. If he seems reluctant to answer your question, just tell him that you are "...sure he has a backlog of repairs to make and you wish to shop around..."

Thus the illogic of answering so many posts about malfunctions and getting the stock answer of, "...take it to a good gunsmith...", when one of the problems is, you do not know who is a "good" gunsmith and if they know anything about the malfunctions you are having.
 
Around the area I live, alot of gunsmiths will have a couple inexperienced lackeys working for them and will stick them with any project that doesn't interest them. The result is that much of the work is done poorly or incorrectly.

When you find a good gunsmith, make sure it's actually him that is doing the work. I wouldn't mind paying a little extra to see that it was.
 
There is a reason a lot of us students in the field are willing to go to the lengths we are. I moved from Florida to South Carolina and a lot of fellow students came further (Washington, Kentucky, Colorado, New York, Virginia, etc.). There is a real lack of established trade programs or even apprenticeships for gunsmiths, so the education that is out there is hard to come by. The less direct route is to pick up a trade like machining, wood working etc and then hope you can use that to break into gunsmithing.
 
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