Gunshot...what do you do?
- Thread starter LASur5r
- Start date
atlctyslkr
New member
Few weeks ago I was in a gun shop and some kid pops a cellophane bag. Me and just about everyone else hit the deck. Fortunately his dad took him out in the parkinglot and screamed at him and then left.
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
atlctyslkr
New member
Now that's just wrong! 
Blackwater OPS
New member
How much is the dry cleaning bill on one of those suits anyway?
Double Naught Spy
New member
My experience is singular. It was at the first (and only?) gun show in Frisco, Texas in late 2005 or early 2006. It was about 15-20 minutes after the doors opened and my buddy and I were rounding our 2nd or 3rd isle when the shot occurred. It came from across the room from our location, but I could see the area of the shot's origination, although I did not know the exact location until later. I had no idea what had been discharged, who discharged it, if anyone was hurt. There was a small grey cloud that could be seen briefly in the lights immediately above the shot area.
At this point, let me say that I always expected that with all the cheap talk about situational awareness, reaction times, etc., that with the gun shot in a gun show, there would have been several people to react quickly. I would guess there was maybe 150 people in the show at the time other than sellers. I was markedly shocked and sickened by the lack of response, including my own.
After the shot occurred, 2 things happened. First, everyone got quiet and the room became very quiet. Second, everyone stopped moving. A few of us, including myself, went as far as to duck down, hunching over a bit, but not actually doing any serious avoidance like actually hitting the dirt. Nobody took flight. I didn't see anyone between me and the sound of the shot turning around to check their 6 or to see if the shot was just part of some bigger event, such as a distraction noise. I know they weren't looking behind them because I was doing the same darned thing and could see they were not!
After approximately 6-8 seconds, several doors came open and security from the event flowed in, about 8 guys (some of which may have been organizers and such, but several with SECURITY shirts) from several doors and converged on the shooting location. With no shouts or screams, everyone went back to his or her business without much concern. I was stupified by our reactions or lack thereof.
Come to find out, it was an ND into the floor by a guy about to do some work on a gun. It was not cleared properly and given it was a Glock, he had to pull the trigger to disassemble it. Fortunately, he didn't violate all the gun handling rules and nobody was hurt by the errant round itself, although several closeby vendors noting their ears were still ringing some 30 minutes later when we finally got around to that side of the show. By that time, the cops were there, patiently waiting to escort him from the building after he loaded up all his gear. There was a nice hole in the carpeting.
It was my first such event at a gun show. For my buddy, it was his second. One of the vendors we know said it was his 7th in 4 or 5 years.
What did I learn? Apparently unless there are many shots, blood flying, or somebody yelling something about jihad or DIE DIE DIE, a singular gun shot in an enclosed room of gun people is not apparently much cause for alarm. We would much rather stand around and wait to see how everybody else reacts instead of being prudent and moving away from the area of danger until we otherwise know if the danger is singular (and ND, suicide, etc.) or just the first shot of a bigger event (crazy person, mass murder, etc.). No, until which time a grander threat than a singular gun shot manifests itself, we will simply stand around like livestock. No doubt if the threat is grander, will will take flight like livestock in an uncontrolled herd mentality.
The show was held in the convention area of the Embassy Suites as I recall. It was a separate building from the hotel. As a convention room, it is made to be sectioned off into many smaller convention rooms. Each of those rooms will have doors which means the overall bigger single room has many doors. It was with the entry of the security folks that I realized just how many available exits there were. By the time they started to enter, I was calculating my way to the nearest exit I had passed. The problem was, once I realized the structure of the building's convention room, the "nearest" exit I passed would actually put me going past 3 additional exits on the way to it. In all, there were probably 6 or 7 exits that were closer (without going over vendor tables) physically closer to me than the exit I had last noticed and thought was closest. Of those, at least 5 were in a direction AWAY from the perceived danger. The last or nearest exit I had seen was the exit for the BALLROOM and was one of several, but there were several smaller exit signs over doors that were the regular meeting room doors when the ballroom was partitioned. I had pretty much failed to identify any of them. As near as I could tell, save for security, nobody else had either, or if they had, made no move to use them.
While chatting during the show with another customer, I commented on the lack of response. He said something like, "What are you going to do, out run a bullet?" Of course not. For a singular bullet, there really isn't much one can do, but none of us knew if it was a singular bullet shot and that the event was over or if it was just the first shot of a bigger event. We all reacted pretty much like there was no danger and that there would be no second gun shot.
For the vast majority of the folks there who did not see the event occur and could not actually see and identify the guy who discharged the gun, all of us should have been working to distance ourselves from the danger. We failed miserably in this regard. I understand that how things went down with this event is not unusual in gun shows.
I now look for as many exits as I can find, not just the ones with the biggest signs. I hope to not again react like docile livestock should such a thing happen again. It was not prudent.
At this point, let me say that I always expected that with all the cheap talk about situational awareness, reaction times, etc., that with the gun shot in a gun show, there would have been several people to react quickly. I would guess there was maybe 150 people in the show at the time other than sellers. I was markedly shocked and sickened by the lack of response, including my own.
After the shot occurred, 2 things happened. First, everyone got quiet and the room became very quiet. Second, everyone stopped moving. A few of us, including myself, went as far as to duck down, hunching over a bit, but not actually doing any serious avoidance like actually hitting the dirt. Nobody took flight. I didn't see anyone between me and the sound of the shot turning around to check their 6 or to see if the shot was just part of some bigger event, such as a distraction noise. I know they weren't looking behind them because I was doing the same darned thing and could see they were not!
After approximately 6-8 seconds, several doors came open and security from the event flowed in, about 8 guys (some of which may have been organizers and such, but several with SECURITY shirts) from several doors and converged on the shooting location. With no shouts or screams, everyone went back to his or her business without much concern. I was stupified by our reactions or lack thereof.
Come to find out, it was an ND into the floor by a guy about to do some work on a gun. It was not cleared properly and given it was a Glock, he had to pull the trigger to disassemble it. Fortunately, he didn't violate all the gun handling rules and nobody was hurt by the errant round itself, although several closeby vendors noting their ears were still ringing some 30 minutes later when we finally got around to that side of the show. By that time, the cops were there, patiently waiting to escort him from the building after he loaded up all his gear. There was a nice hole in the carpeting.
It was my first such event at a gun show. For my buddy, it was his second. One of the vendors we know said it was his 7th in 4 or 5 years.
What did I learn? Apparently unless there are many shots, blood flying, or somebody yelling something about jihad or DIE DIE DIE, a singular gun shot in an enclosed room of gun people is not apparently much cause for alarm. We would much rather stand around and wait to see how everybody else reacts instead of being prudent and moving away from the area of danger until we otherwise know if the danger is singular (and ND, suicide, etc.) or just the first shot of a bigger event (crazy person, mass murder, etc.). No, until which time a grander threat than a singular gun shot manifests itself, we will simply stand around like livestock. No doubt if the threat is grander, will will take flight like livestock in an uncontrolled herd mentality.
The show was held in the convention area of the Embassy Suites as I recall. It was a separate building from the hotel. As a convention room, it is made to be sectioned off into many smaller convention rooms. Each of those rooms will have doors which means the overall bigger single room has many doors. It was with the entry of the security folks that I realized just how many available exits there were. By the time they started to enter, I was calculating my way to the nearest exit I had passed. The problem was, once I realized the structure of the building's convention room, the "nearest" exit I passed would actually put me going past 3 additional exits on the way to it. In all, there were probably 6 or 7 exits that were closer (without going over vendor tables) physically closer to me than the exit I had last noticed and thought was closest. Of those, at least 5 were in a direction AWAY from the perceived danger. The last or nearest exit I had seen was the exit for the BALLROOM and was one of several, but there were several smaller exit signs over doors that were the regular meeting room doors when the ballroom was partitioned. I had pretty much failed to identify any of them. As near as I could tell, save for security, nobody else had either, or if they had, made no move to use them.
While chatting during the show with another customer, I commented on the lack of response. He said something like, "What are you going to do, out run a bullet?" Of course not. For a singular bullet, there really isn't much one can do, but none of us knew if it was a singular bullet shot and that the event was over or if it was just the first shot of a bigger event. We all reacted pretty much like there was no danger and that there would be no second gun shot.
For the vast majority of the folks there who did not see the event occur and could not actually see and identify the guy who discharged the gun, all of us should have been working to distance ourselves from the danger. We failed miserably in this regard. I understand that how things went down with this event is not unusual in gun shows.
I now look for as many exits as I can find, not just the ones with the biggest signs. I hope to not again react like docile livestock should such a thing happen again. It was not prudent.
Glock safety
Glock apparently gives a safety course for dealers and a friend of mine attended who works in a gun shop. Glock says to first drop the mag and then clear the chamber three times. Their reason is that if you clear the chamber once but have forgotten to drop the mag, you'll just re-load the pistol. But if you clear it three times and bullets keep popping out you know you have forgotten to drop the mag. Just thought I'd share that given the above incident related by double naught spy was Glock related.
Glock apparently gives a safety course for dealers and a friend of mine attended who works in a gun shop. Glock says to first drop the mag and then clear the chamber three times. Their reason is that if you clear the chamber once but have forgotten to drop the mag, you'll just re-load the pistol. But if you clear it three times and bullets keep popping out you know you have forgotten to drop the mag. Just thought I'd share that given the above incident related by double naught spy was Glock related.
LOL!
Everybody's a warrior until they get shot at.
What bugs me is that so many commercial SD trainers/instructors really have no experience off the range. They're experts at shooting at targets in 'safe', contrived, practiced, stressless situations. That's it.
They teach every variation in the book, but what will likely happen in a close shootout is that one will either freeze, backpeddle while shooting or crouch/stare/push out/shoot....and pointshoot!
And don't count on the 'peripheral vision' baloney....it's great fun, but extreme stress suppresses peripheral vision. You will have gross muscle memory and tunnel vision only.
Sounds like an instinctive crouch to me.
)combat crouch
backpeddle/crouch
....and read Bullseye's Don't Shoot Back - Applegate & Janich
.
Winston007
Inactive
Double Naught Spy Sounds like a controlled reaction to me and it was well handled by the venue staff - perfect - the last thing you need in a room full of people with guns is panic.
Years ago I was shooting at an indoor range. A case blew up in a friend's .45 I saw the slide fly forward and the rest of the gun hit the floor seconds later. I leaned over and saw my friend kneeling on the grown with his hands covering his face which was bleeding I spoke to him, and he responded, I then RAN to the counter to enlist assistance. The first thing the experienced person behind the counter said was "DON'T RUN!" - "I will get my kit and be right there". I'll never forget that advice.
You leave and learn and I learn everyday.
BTW He had a couple of black eyes for a week but he recovered very well.
Years ago I was shooting at an indoor range. A case blew up in a friend's .45 I saw the slide fly forward and the rest of the gun hit the floor seconds later. I leaned over and saw my friend kneeling on the grown with his hands covering his face which was bleeding I spoke to him, and he responded, I then RAN to the counter to enlist assistance. The first thing the experienced person behind the counter said was "DON'T RUN!" - "I will get my kit and be right there". I'll never forget that advice.
You leave and learn and I learn everyday.
BTW He had a couple of black eyes for a week but he recovered very well.
Double Naught Spy
New member
There is no way in the world everyone in that room experienced a controlled reaction. Freezing up isn't a controlled reaction.
As far as panic in a room full of guns, moving from danger failed to occur in either a panic manner or controlled manner. If folks were so much in control, then logic would indicate they move from the danger in a controlled manner.
As far as the guns in the room, they are supposed to be unloaded. Most certainly are.
keep in mind though that if there had been multiple shots people probably would have reacted differently (I HOPE). One almost expects the occasional ND at a gun show. However if everyone had whipped out CCWs from their waistbands and taken ready stances that would have been cool. Unlikely though.
TexiCali Slim
New member
Hurry up and buy that gun I've been gawking at!!!!
Oh and I guess get some ammo too
Oh and I guess get some ammo too
well, let me clarify my remark a little.. one almost expects a ND at a gun show *or anywhere else there are lots of people handling guns and ammo as opposed to where they're not.* I'd be less surprised by a ND at a gun show than at the perfume counter at Macy's, for example.
My point was that WHERE you hear a gunshot is going to color your reaction to it and it makes some sense that people weren't all hitting the floor after one shot, whereas if I were at a party and heard a gunshot I'd be getting the hell out real fast and I suppose most others would too.
My point was that WHERE you hear a gunshot is going to color your reaction to it and it makes some sense that people weren't all hitting the floor after one shot, whereas if I were at a party and heard a gunshot I'd be getting the hell out real fast and I suppose most others would too.
guntotin_fool
New member
I was in a cabela;s a few years ago and someone was filling a paint ball gun with air when the hose let go, It sounded just like a\ gunshot, This was right near the gun dept, and I was on the floor on top of my son in a heartbeat, I got up and i looked at my brother and we both chuckled, we both had our 1911's out and there were a couple of other customers who had drawn too. I think the poor kid who was filling the tank needed a potty break, or maybe a uniform break.
I honestly can say I do not remember making the decision to draw, but we had them out thinking some one was shooting up the gun counter.
I honestly can say I do not remember making the decision to draw, but we had them out thinking some one was shooting up the gun counter.