Gunshop Mis Information

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baddarryl

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There was a lady who bought a gun from an LGS I was in this am. She asked them if she ever wanted to sell it how to do it legally. The only info they gave her was that she had to bring it in to them and they would do the transfer, for a fee of course. They made no mention at all that she could sell it to a private citizen if they had the right permit or ccl (the law in NC). They even told her to bring the citizen in to do it.

This particular shop is known around town as being a bit disingenuous and arrogant at times, but this I thought was unreal. I wanted to chime in but thought better of it as they have the only indoor range around. So off goes another misinformed newbie that could have been educated by the right people at the right time. I know technically what they told her was maybe the safest option for a transfer, but certainly not the only way. Something about it made me sick.
 
" I know technically what they told her was maybe the safest option for a transfer..."

And that's misinformation.... how?

The gunshop is a business, so they're going to do everything they can to try to get business.

In this case they didn't do it by lying to the customer or being sneaky or underhanded about it.

When you go into a car dealership and ask whether the Fiesta gets good gas mileage, do you expect the salesman to tell you that the Toyota Corolla gets the same, or better, mileage?
 
You make a good point Mike, but I own a business too and make it a habit to give all the information I can to a customer even if sometimes it does not benefit me. I didn't feel they were lying, but certainly withholding info.
 
If that's the worst piece of gun-counter misinformation you hear, you're really beating the curve. I've heard far worse, and I encourage people to be very skeptical of the advice they get from gun shop employees.

...and yes, this is coming from a guy who runs a gun shop.
 
"but I own a business too and make it a habit to give all the information I can to a customer even if sometimes it does not benefit me."

OK, well, good luck with that, then.
 
And you are in there, why????.....

My ? is why are you in this place if you think the sales staff or mgmt is shady or uses unethical business practices?
I don't spend my time or $$$ in a place where the employees or small business owners are 2 faced or are unfair.

I do not get involved in any gun shop/sporting goods department transactions or sales unless I see something completely unsafe or unethical.

If you go on gun forums bad-mouthing this gun shop or business then why go there? :confused:
 
Baddaryl: Not only was there nothing wrong with the advice that gun shop employee gave, but I think he did the right thing. Why should hourly gun shop employees be dispensing legal advice to customers regarding a transaction that would happen outside the shop and wouldn't involve the shop in any way?

I'm the floor manager at a gun shop. I don't want my employees playing instructor or lawyer behind the counter; their job is to help customers, sell guns and accessories, and give out technical advice regarding the products we sell. We need to give good technical information and give good information involving services we provide, but the last thing I want is for an employee to give detailed legal advice that is either wrong or is misinterpreted by the customer.

Sure, it wouldn't have hurt if the employee at your LGS had mentioned offhand that a person-to-person transaction was legal, and then pointed the customer towards a good source of information regarding the legal details of the transaction. But he only mentioned how the store could help her in her transaction, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
What did they tell her that was (1) wrong, (2) unethical, (3) dangerous? Nothing at all. She asked how to sell it, they told her how.

You want to get a glassy eyed stare from a "newbie?" Start explaining minutia to them.
 
Actually, the information was probably the best as the situation allowed.

Try explaining to a person who knows next to nothing about gun laws that you can transfer a gun to someone with-out a background check of you do "Due Diligence" and try to make sure they are an authorized purchaser of that gun. AND if it is a long gun they can transfer across states lines, providing the state in which they sell the gun allows that type of transfer.

But if the state only allows a person to purchase from another individual when that person has a concealed carry permit or another special Firearms Identification Card....

Much easier to help your customer avoid the legal hassle of an unauthorized sale if you have them bring it back to you to re-sell it.


Now about that car dealer.....
 
Baddaryl: The more I think about your reaction to the LGS employee, the more annoyed I become. These forums are FULL of stories about bad advice given by gun shop employees. If that employee at your LGS had told the customer that a personal transaction was legal, and then told her ANY incorrect information regarding the details of that transaction, you would have come on here complaining about the bad advice given at gun shops. Instead he told her what the store could do to help her, and that was it; he didn't give any incorrect information. And yet you are still complaining.

One of the biggest problems I have at my shop is employees giving customers TOO MUCH information. I've got to deal with things like an employee showing a brand-new gun owner how to detail strip their new Glock, or an employee giving a Massad Ayoob-esque lecture regarding the details of self-defense law to a couple looking to buy their first gun for home defense.

I had an employee once tell a first-time gun owner that it was perfectly legal for him to strap his new Colt 6920 across his chest and walk through the downtown area of the major American city we are located near. And while the open carry laws in this state might make that technically legal in many situations, that's NOT the kind of thing an LGS employee should be telling a new gun owner. (That employee is no longer employed at my shop.)

No, the LGS employee you saw didn't do anything wrong. Instead of go off into legal minutia regarding personal transfers laws in your state and risk confusing the customer or giving wrong information, he just told her how the shop could help her. If she wants to learn the details regarding the gun laws in her state, I'm sure she's capable of researching them on her own.
 
I agree with Theo....

I agree with Theo....
Laws, tactics, personal preferences, politics, religion or personal beliefs, sarcasism, and/or biases should not be in a FFL holder's office or retail location.

Last summer I had to endure the pointless tirade of a female employee near the gun shop clerk who was doing my ATF paperwork for a new S&W .45acp pistol. :mad:
Her annoying ranting made me not want to shop there again.

I went back to the same location & overheard the same young woman talking about college football. :rolleyes:
Another shop employee didn't understand what a "magazine safety" was on a M&P pistol. Good thing Smith & Wesson PRINTS the warning on the side of the pistol. :D

Clyde
 
The only info they gave her was that she had to bring it in to them and they would do the transfer, for a fee
Click to expand...

If this is precisely what was said to the lady, it is dishonest. Why would anyone approve of this - if this is what was said?

If the LGS employee said something like "the best thing for you to do is bring the gun back to us and we will handle the transfer for you" - that would be just fine. But, this is actually quite different than what the OP said the LGS employee said.
 
Theohazard said:
Baddaryl: Not only was there nothing wrong with the advice that gun shop employee gave, but I think he did the right thing. Why should hourly gun shop employees be dispensing legal advice to customers regarding a transaction that would happen outside the shop and wouldn't involve the shop in any way?
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Perhaps because the woman was a paying customer, who asked a simple question?

I disagree with many of the above posts. I do NOT think the salesman's answer was honest or ethical. It was, at best, disingenuous. It certainly was not, IMHO, "the right ting" for him to do. The right thing would have been to have told her the truth, and then to have explained why she might feel more secure having them handle a transfer even though it's not legally required. That's how you win repeat customers.

If I were a customer and I found that a shop of any kind had mislead me, I would never go back, and I would do my utmost to ensure that nobody I know ever patronizes that shop.

Theohazard said:
But he only mentioned how the store could help her in her transaction, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Yes, there is something wrong with that. It's wrong because it was not a candid answer to her question.
 
Aquila Blanca said:
Theohazard said:
Why should hourly gun shop employees be dispensing legal advice to customers regarding a transaction that would happen outside the shop and wouldn't involve the shop in any way?
Click to expand...
Perhaps because the woman was a paying customer, who asked a simple question?
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And he gave her a simple answer. If he had actually told her the ONLY way to do it was through the shop, then I agree it was dishonest. But I sincerely doubt he said that.

Sure, ideally he would have mentioned the other options for transfer that didn't involve the shop, and then given her references so she could further research those options on her own. But what he did was a LOT better than giving her all sorts of legal details that could have easily turned out to be incorrect.

I'm constantly amazed that so many people expect hourly retail employees to be experts in every detail of every firearm ever made, experts in every caliber and its ballistic properties, experts in all firearm accessories, and experts in all firearms laws on the local, state, and federal levels. I continuously train my employees and I'm always listening to their conversations with customers. I make sure they're trained in the areas they need to know about, but when it comes to the myriad of gun laws in this country, I focus on the laws that directly affect our store; with anything else I'd much rather have them remain silent than give out bad legal advice.
 
The right thing would have been to have told her the truth, and then to have explained why she might feel more secure having them handle a transfer even though it's not legally required.
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The answer the salesperson gave did not put the customer in legal jeopardy. Sorry, but if she's relying on a part-time hourly retail employee for comprehensive knowledge of gun laws, she could have gotten worse answers.
 
I'm in agreement with the OP. I never lie and I expect the whole truth from others. The thought that I can't handle or understand the truth should be my judgement not theirs.
 
I think the best thing the salesperson could have said would have been something like "there are a lot of minutia (nice word) between federal and state laws about selling a firearm. Therefore, we recommend you use our FFL transfer services to keep yourself out of legal jeopardy."

The confusing part to me is, reading what the OP has stated, it sounds like this is essentially what she was told.
 
Here's another thing: People keep assuming that he left out the information regarding personal transfers intentionally, but maybe he didn't know the law when it comes to personal transfers (or maybe he had been instructed by management not go into too much detail regarding legal advice). So instead of talk about something he didn't know about, he just talked about what he did; namely, the transfer services offered by his shop.

I recently found out that a few employees at my shop had advised customers that it was legal to sell guns to an out-of-state relative by flying with the guns and doing a face-to-face transfer, provided the state laws allow it. Those employees weren't aware that they were advising those customers to potentially break federal law: That would be illegal under federal law if the gun was a handgun.

At gun shops we constantly have customers asking questions about every detail of all federal, state, and local gun laws. I'd MUCH rather have an employee leave something unsaid (intentionally or unintentionally) than accidentally advise the customer to do something illegal.
 
Talk is cheap....

Until you hire a lawyer...
:D
Really, everyone loves to play legal beagle but it's best to refer customers to legal resources or agencies.

There are printed guides, websites, hand-outs, books, etc that explain gun & use of force laws.

The recent "high profile event" in central Florida re-enforced the need for all US gun owners & license holders to learn & understand the local gun/lethal force statues & laws.
A part-time $9.00/hour employee in a retail shop isn't the "best" source for legal matters. :rolleyes:
 
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