Guns w/o manual safeties

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BMC

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Before anything I'd like to say it's good to be among professionals.
All of my guns at home have manual safeties. The reason for this is because I am afraid of an accidental discharge or an unauthorized person using the weapon. I've heard tales of police officers saved when their snatched guns were on "safe". Other stories tell of those who were killed by their own duty guns that had no manual safeties.
But the Sig Sauer, Glock, and Ruger lines have so many good pistols that I wonder if my paranoia is unfounded. Infact, I was given a glock 26 and, when the attire calls for it, wear it in an ankle holster. The problem is, and I know I'm going to get a lot of heat for this, I carry it with no round in the chamber.
Am I just being safe or am I just paranoid?
 
BMC,

In the case of a "snatch" you would be in deep doo-doo but otherwise these guns are just as safe as a modern revolver. They just won't go off unless someone pulls the trigger, just like a revolver, and look how long we went with revolvers being the primary carry piece for law enforcement and permit holders.

If you're more worried about a grab then go with the empty chamber - just be sure you always practice that way so racking the slide is automatic. Otherwise, do as most of us do and put one up the spout.

Mikey
 
BMC:

I agree with Mikey. Unless your carrying in the open, the chances of a snatch are remote.

I don't personally recommend carrying a semi-auto with an empty chamber, but if that's the only way you feel comfortable AND you practice drawing AND racking the slide, then go ahead...no heat coming your way from me.

Mike
 
If thats a concern - think of this...
Do you think all thugs are too stupid to flip a lever?
NEVER underestimate your Enemy. NEVER.
If a snatch is a concern - go with a higher level of retention in your holster.
It's faster to draw from a level 3 rig than to draw and rack the slide before getting your sight picture.

If retention is a concern I would ditch the angle rig and go with a Safariland level 3 rig... And learn to love Sport Coats.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE



[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited November 02, 1999).]
 
I personally don't want a duty weapon with a manual safety. If I ever have to use my weapon, I sure don't want to have to switch a gun to fire.

I like the Glock because of its simplicity. All you have to do is aim and shoot. There aren't any levers or anything.

Of the DA/SA autos out there, I think that Sig is the best design. I like the decocking lever being on the frame. I hate doing malfunction drills with a slide mounted decocking lever or safety.
 
One of the main reasons that I got rid of my Beretta Tomcat is the safety lever. Took it out of my pocket one evening and the safety was on and I didn't use the safety. It really bothered me how long it would have probably taken me to figure out the safety is on if I had seriously needed that little pistol. Also recently got rid of a Ruger P90 and one of the reasons was the safety. Plan on buying one of the newer P97 with a decocker only. For me there is no place on a self defense handgun for a manual safety and chamber is always loaded (except for Glock 30 in a fanny pack cause trigger isn't properly covered).
 
I have to agree with Grorge on this one. Sometimes this whole "safety" discussion gets a bit out of hand. Unless it's a 1911 style gun, a safety is really just a "feel good" feature. I have several handguns and rarely use the safety - period. ANy gun I "carry" the safety is off with one in the pipe.

"Safety", IMO, is a practiced condition. If you train to safely handle the gun then you will most likely safely handle it.

Here's a funny - I rank this safety hype right up there with the gun show dealers that try to disuade we from getting a CCW fanny pack - "If someone see that fanny pack, it's a dead give away that you have gun. They (the BG) will sneak up behind you for his attack."

My response: "So what you are saying is that if a BG believes I have gun he will sneak up behind me, as opposed to if he sees you without a gun he will approach YOU from the front!? If a BG thinks I have gun and he still attempts to do me harm, I'm ready and he's really stupid"

Safety is a mind-set. Be safe.

CMOS

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Join GOA, NRA, LEAA and vote.


[This message has been edited by CMOS (edited November 02, 1999).]
 
SInce I have more guns than I can use at once, I try to keep them all in the same condition. That means safety off, ready to fire for handguns, safety off, loaded but not chambered for rifles. Saeties are not something I trust one bit, esp. having seen a number of them fail mechanically.

Garand will be tough exception...can't keep it that way...
 
I think the NRA says it best. This statement was on an NRA exam: "A safety is a mechanical device that can fail." 'Nuff said.
 
BMC,

I still feel uncomfortable when I conceal and carry my new Glock23C. I have had it for about 3 months now, but I perfer to carry my HK USP Compact beacause it has a 10 lb. trigger pull.

By the way, I don't believe in carrying a firearm without one in the chamber.

Good shooting.

__________________________________________
Ban the bans.
http://members.xoom.com/urbansniper/home.html
 
I personally like thumb safetys. Its just my opinion, but they only take a split second to disengage during your draw. I find that they don't really slow me down or anything. Yes they can fail, but so can anything. I still obey the rules of gun safety regardless of what I'm using. As far as retention is concerned, better to have one and not need it, than to need it and not have one. Some criminals are gun people too, they will take off a safety just as quick as any of us would. But if the person snatching your gun isn't a gun person, then it could buy you some time. Not that my opinion is worth anything though. :)
 
Use a Safariland 070 level III retention holster and don't worry about gun grabs on duty. I let my brother try on my gunbelt once. He couldn't get the gun out of the holster while actually wearing it until I showed him how. I know that somebody trying to grab it won't be able to do so. Occasionally, we even have training sessions concerning gun grabs. Even those of us that use the holster can't get them away from the other officers.

As far as off duty is concerned, if your gun is properly concealed, you won't have a problem.
 
Wow! I didn't expect to see so many replies in such short a time! I thought I'd give it a day or two and find a handful of messages.
Well you all surely put me in my place. Great advice from all of you. You all gave me views on the topic I would have never thought about. Buncha geniuses in this chat room. So calm down, I have a round in my G26's chamber now. Plus I can sleep better at night knowing one of the great questions in my life is over. Like I said, it's great to be among professionals.
So to all who have written me or are about to, take comfort in the fact that you helped a slightly ignorant gun owner be a little bit more aware. If I come up with any other dumb questions or scenarios be sure to put me in my place.
Many thanks to you all.

P.S. Thanks to Unicron and Correia for giving their own views. Makes me feel better I'm not the only one who thinks that way.
 
I should amend my statement about a safety being a device that can fail. It is. But, like Correia, I use them. I would never carry my 1911 cocked without the thumb safety engaged. My point is that a safety should never be a substitute for proper gun safety as most everyone has said. For instance, if you are on a rifle range and the RO says to make your guns safe, that doesn't mean put the safeties on and allow people to start walking down range. None of us would dream of doing that. The gun must be unloaded and the action open so everyone knows it is unloaded. A safety is only one of the many methods of keeping a gun from firing, and it is way down the list of more reliable methods.
 
rec.guns and tactics-l just did a
thread war on carrying unchambered.
The overwhelming opinion is that
unchambered carry is risky because
of the time needed to rack and the
possibility of the rack going bad
for a zillion reasons.

But just one analysis. A proponent of
unchambered racking claimed he could
accomplish this in 300 milliseconds.
Thus that was fast enough.

Howeve, in the Tueller context of
1.5 sec = 21 feet of movement,
300 milliseconds equals 4.2 ft IIRC.
Thus do you want to start a fight
with every opponent 4 feet or a 1/3
of a second ahead of you.

Our concensus was that if you are scared
of the normal carry mode of a semi -
get a revolver.

bye

Glenn
 
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