Gunfighter rigs...

B

BigG

New member
On another thread concerning Muzzle Blast, s/o asked me what I meant by gunfighter rigs. There was discussion of practical matters in gunfighting. My point was that training in recognized schools is often conducted with instructors and students wearing gun leather rigs akin to those exhibited by Jeff Cooper in his heyday. Mr. Cooper was/is in AZ where cowboy carry is condoned. I don't know if there is any other locale in the US where such carry is done, but not anywhere I know of. These rigs are IMO gunfighter rigs and are appropriate for police officer wear when on duty, not by Joe CCW. Also, IPSC shooters and other gamers wear rigs entirely inappropriate for concealed carry, yet I often hear them say they are preparing for battle on the mean streets.

Here's the rub: Why call it training if you don't carry like you train? Call it "GI Joe", "Mr. Dress Up", "Mr. Police Officer", "Marshal Matt Dillon, "or just plain FUN, but, to me it ain't training. Any comments? :)

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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG




[This message has been edited by BigG (edited January 27, 2000).]
 
BigG
Once while working as a Kansas City MO police officer I reported for inspection at roll call wearing a hand tooled double Buscadaro (sp) rig sporting a brace of Colt single action armies just for "shucks and grins".
The rig was not well received by my sergeant. :o

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Gunslinger

We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.
 
Best gunfighter leather for the money is TRAILRIDER Products, from right here in Colorado.

Cross draw flap style cavalry holster with covered rivets and a closed bottom in arsenal black for a 7.5 inch vaquero?? No Problem. Matching belt with 18 .44 cal loops??? No Problem. (oh AND it fits my 1860 army and 1851 navy Colt Black powder revolvers)

No it ain't a fast draw rig.. but man is it pretty and tough and functional.

Now I need a 1861 slim jim canted forward for crossdraw with a hammerthong. Or matching mexican loop holsters when I pick up a second vaquero?? ;)

Of course if you are a 1911 fan, GI holsters run $20 new.

Open carry is legal in most of colorado and wyoming, so you see a lot of "cowboy" leather, you also see a lot of Bianchi hi-ride cop leather on the ranchers and wranglers, the BEST cowboy rig I've seen was on a sheep herder on the western slope... no conchos but man that rig hung down to his KNEE and the grips of the colt in it were stained black by sweat.

most guys I know who really do ccw use suede iwb holsters or shoulder rigs.

Dr.Rob
 
One holster designed by a real western gunfighter which is quite practical for CCW is the Tom Threepersons holster. Tom Threepersons is interesting because as far as I know he is the only man who at various times in his life was a Texas Ranger and a Royal Canadian Mounted policeman. As they used to say in Texas "he had seen the elephant."
 
Hi BigG:

A couple comments:

I personally train the way I carry 90% of the time. Last pistol class I took I deliberately wore a long work shirt to emulate my concealed carry habits. And yup, I did try to grab through the shirt a couple times. :o Doom on me! But that's why I'm training. :)

The instructors I've trained with didn't turn away any holster setup that I remember.

I heard about one instructor who took a shotgun class barefoot and in blue jeans. That's it. This was because this is the way he lounges around the house so that's how he expects to fight when TSHTF.

This is just my opinion, but people ought to train the way they really carry or they are only hurting themselves. In this I think we are in agreement.

Having said all that, how do you suggest people train/carry?
I am not trying to start a flame war :o

Edmund
 
If you want to win a cup, wear a Belt sheathe with your shirt tucked in. If you want to train wear your normal rig.

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"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8.
 
BigG,
What do you mean by "cowboy carry"? :confused: Here in Arizona we respect the second amendment, both in our customs, and our laws. Arizona law allows for "open carry". This means that any law abiding citizen can at his/her option carry a firearm in full view at any time subject to a few exceptions, such as going into bars. We do not have "shoot outs" on our streets at high noon, or any such Hollywood nonsense. If we are the only state that you know about that respects the Constitution, and you do too, then maybe you should consider moving here. We need Patriots living here to offset the socialist trash that we are getting from The People's Republic Of Kalifornia!

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Just as there is no such thing as too much fun,
there is no such thing as owning just one gun!!!

Now, go do the right thing, and buy that Walther!!
 
Mr. Rowe covered the bases pretty well, thank you. You train with your set-up & you should have your set-up as to what works for you.

A "gunfighters' rig," in modern day scenarios would be that which would allow you to draw & fire (rather quickly, one would hope) with accuracy to save your life. Period.

Maybe I'm missing something in the initial post?
 
The El Paso holster catalog (and website) shows pictures of their Tom Threepersons holsters if anyone is interested. They look like authentic copies but I doubt that Tom Threepersons would approve of the safety strap El Paso ha added to his design.
 
Clarification: A "gunfighter rig", in my terms, is a open carry gunbelt and holster which would be appropriate for a police officer or military person, however, in most states/areas it is inappropriate for Joe CCW unless it is hunting season or on the range.

"Cowboy carry" is my term for "open carry" a la Arizona. Not a disparaging remark, just my shorthand for open carry. :)

PS: Denfoote, I did live in AZ and liked it, however, the job market was not all that :( so I moved! Liked to do my shooting around 12th Street and Beardsley Rd area. Understand it's all developed now! :( Glad to meet a fellow patriot.

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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
 
BigG,
Have you ever been to an IDPA match? Most IDPA shooters do carry and shoot guns that they carry on the street, using concealable rigs and cover garments. We shoot IDPA every Monday nights at American Classic Marksman in Norcross and every fourth Sundays at South River Gun Club. I agree with you that IPSC shooters use rigs and guns that are not street practical. I've been told several times at IPSC matches at South River that I need a high cap, scoped, compensated pistol and an open body speed holster.
 
Hi Ricky, Yep, you are reading me loud and clear about the open carry type of rigs, such as IPSC, police officers, Marshall Matt Dillon, GI Joe, etc., etc.

No, I haven't been to an IDPA match. I do shoot IPSC and could not bring myself to foul up a nice Colt pistol by modifying it like IPSC shooters do. Do you have to be a member of South River to shoot a match?

BTW, IPSC shooters tell me they are "ready to pop the BG!!"

------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
 
BigG,
You don't have to be a member of SRGC to shoot, most shooters aren't members. You can come and watch or participate, give it a try, then compare it with IPSC. It's not a wide open track and field event, so some IPSC shooters who tried IDPA didn't like it, not enough runnin' and gunnin' they said. They said IDPA have too many rules, such as: no game rigs, using concealment garments, using available cover during shooting, reloading behind cover, tactical and slide lock reloads instead of speed reloads (no leaving ammunitions on the ground), etc. These are rules that promote survivability (is that a word?) not win trophies or big paychecks. BigG, email me directly for more details and discussions.
 
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