Gun Training As Another Form of Martial Arts? (Martial artists respond.)

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J

Johnny Got His Gun.1

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Looking at the martial arts, it's easy to see that people have always adapted the most readily available items (even if it's only their hands and feet) to the purpose of self-defense. Bearing this idea in mind, consider the prevalence of guns in this society and the fascination we on this site have with training for various situations. If it weren't guns--Lord, forbid!--then we'd fall back on knives or swords, etc.

What about yourselves?

How many of you are currently training or have been trained as martial artists? I don't care if you're a student right now or an instructor--please post.

A collegue of mine turned me onto handguns and told me how he turned my tae kwon do instructor onto training with handguns. In a nutshell, the conversation ran thus: "Do you consider yourself a martial artist?" "Yes." "You're obsolete. Your training is useful, but incomplete. Until you train yourself with a handgun, you'll remain incomplete."

Interesting point, I'd say. And I agree. Let me know who's supplemented the handgun training with martial arts and vice versa.
 
Johnny,

For a true martial artist, the most effective weapons available should obviously be studied. Over-reliance on any one item or tool, though, is weakness. This is where many of the gun and/or knife folks who scoff at traditional martial artists miss the boat.

Having no close-quarters unarmed skills mean that most gunners can only gun. (These are generally the fat and lazy sit-at-home CCL types, as opposed to the active and dedicated Thunder Ranch people. Those types are usually hard targets even without guns.) Having only hand-to-hand skill means that you may be obsolete, if you don't hide well.

Spectre believes in hand-to-hand, carrying firearms, and hiding!

FWIW, I know several people who are extremely dangerous at close quarters. They tend to advise using a weapon whenever possible, and Glock seems to be their first choice...
 
Johnny,

Without getting into a technical definition of the term "martial art" I believe it can simply be described by the word "combat". Martial arts, if you will, is concerned primarily with killing and keeping from being killed by others. For thousands of years the sword was one common weapon throughout some of the world which was used for short range combat (martial arts). It was just one weapon which was employed for defense or aggression. IMHO Today the firearm is the common "sword". It is a close combat weapon and should be thought of as one of many options to be considered, depending upon the lethal encounter. Many violent confrontations do not warrant the use of lethal force. This is where other non lethal weapons can be the appropriate option. Possibly no weapon at all, except for your own body.

Other encounters may require long arms to be effective (ie. against opposing soldiers). I believe that combat, or martial arts, includes ancient eastern, western, modern western, etc. forms of combat. One can not just say that kung fu and karate are the only thing classified as such. I'm not saying that you believe this. I am saying that modern American culture only knows what they see on TV and in the movies. This is where the steriotype of martial arts came from. In my opinion, we Americans have the blessed priviledge of living in a nation that has many of the best combat instructors of handgun combat....a modern "martial art." Many generations might pass before some of the great schools and trainers are seen for what they are...masters of their specialty of martial art. When it really comes down to it, I believe that it is important to be skilled and train in hand to hand (no weapon), short range (handguns, batons, and/or various other lethal and nonlethal weapons), and long range combat (ie. rifle). This allows one more versatility to meet the required threat. Most of us lead sheltered lives, but if ever called upon to defend our country from foregn or domestic aggression, this type of well rounded training would come in useful. :)

------------------
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)


[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited November 08, 1999).]
 
I've been studying firearm combat since grade school. When I was of legal age, I got a Glock 17 specifically for defense, followed a year later with an AR-15. Soon afterwards I took my first formal martial arts training (tae kwon do).

As I met more like-minded people, I got more exposure to different approaches to martial arts and gun training. Specifically, the sport vs combat attitudes.

One of the most important lessons I learned (peacefully!) was that a great many people are mesmerized by a name, when it's what's between your ears that saves your @$$.

Example 1:
"Edmund what kind of kick would you use if someone broke into your house?"
"I'd shoot him"
"You wouldn't use your tae kwon do??"
"No, he might be tougher than me"

Example 2:
"Edmund, this .44 magnum is the coolest gun I've ever had! I'll use this to defend against someone breaking in my house or against bears when I'll go hiking in the Rockies"
"Why use a .44 handgun when you can use a RIFLE? You've got a .45-70 Marlin lever action."

Edmund
 
I do consider Handgun as one weapon in Martial Arts too. Why? because there is an art in shooting. We study from basic to advance also. The mechanics of drawing, sighting, and many things about making it effective, then it is part of "Combat" as Equalizer have said.

Being an aging martial arts player like me now, I resort more to handgun as my self defence weapon for more opponents. This weapon is good for close and long range combat also, thus it is a very good instrument to incorporate with my martial arts knowledge.

Thanks.
 
All training is necessary.
Hand to Hand
Pistol
Rifle
Shotgun
Driving
Offensive and Defensive strategy...
Poetry

"What?"

You need to know all of it. Like the Samuri of old, they studied all forms of fighting and everything that would help them in the time of war.
But they also studied everything that reminded them what they fight for. They studied art and poetry. Music and Decor. They were well rounded people. This made them much better warriors. And folks you could have a conversation with about things other than war.
SO - My point? After you attend your week of Gunsite or Thunder Ranch... Go see "Les Miserables" or a Ballet. Take a walk around your local art museum. Take your kids to a matinee. Your wife to a dinner (preferably before the ballet - she will enjoy it too, so bring her.)
You have to know what your fighting for. You have to have a deep love of LIFE. For this is what your protecting - and what you may take from another.


------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
I just want to add Jeorge to what you have mentioned. Being a warrior - do so much prayer and devotion to God also.

Determined fierceless fighters are kind hearted and loving to their families.

Thanks
Sonny
 
My martial arts:
- Tai Chi (every slow, relaxing move is a strike or block at higher speeds)
- Kali (Philipine stick fighting, suitable for any long, narrow object you can get your hands on, including knives)
- Iaido (Japanese sword, heavy on art and decisive blows)
- Ayoob handgun (smooth, fast, efficient draw & fire under any circumstance)
- Cooper rifle (decisive first shot under any practical distance, time and condition)

One needs a variety of training, lest the desired tool not be available. How many of you don't have a firearm handy right now? How many martial artists have been beaten by a bozo with a bullet?

A range of training is needed, and eventually the whole of training exceeds the sum of the parts. After multiple disciplines from empty-hand grappling to one-kilometer "reach out and touch someone", it becomes clear that "weapon" means anything a properly trained individual can get his hands on. (Thus laws and societal fears against "weapons" become absurd.) Some tools are preferred above others; a rifle is preferred over a telephone, though the latter can be used for defense.

Note that too many people forget the "art" in "martial art". One must balance the aggression with beauty, lest one become unbalanced. After each course, Ayoob emphasizes that each student should go and do something life-affirming, to remind oneself _why_ we learn such devestating techniques, and remember what we are protecting. Samauri were skilled in drawing and poetry. Churchill painted. Iaido almost ranks artistic form over survival. I've been stunned by the sheer beauty of a sword master slicing two dozen "goza".

When one learns to use powerful forces and techniques to destroy, one must learn powerful forces and techniques to create. Such is an often missed aspect of martial arts.
 
Well, it depends on how you interpret the question, and what you want for an answer. I mean when you say "martial art" are you talking about a fighting art that focuses only on the techniques of using the weapon (like fencing), or are you talking about an Eastern-style fighting art than includes philosophy, mysticism, etc?

If you're talking about a western-style art, absolutely - there's no "can be" to it, shooting is definitely a fighting art. If you mean an eastern-style art, the answer is also yes, it can be, but I don't know too many people who take that far. There aren't a lot of people who engage in true self-defense type firearms training to being with (as opposed to target shooters, hunters, etc. - please don't think I'm slamming hunters and target shooters, I'm a hunter & target shooter myself). I don't know of any shooters who talk about mystic experiences while shooting, or a gun as a path to enlightenment - but I do know at least one eastern martial arts master who is also a certified handgun instructor. Every adult in my class at least owns a firearm, a few are quite proficient (unfortunately, I'm not one of them, but it's cool getting classes from people I usually teach, and it's a good class bonding experience!).

Personally, I believe that everyone who carries a gun for self defense should study some type of unarmed combat, otherwise their training is incomplete. My reason for this is mostly practical - Gunfights rarely occur at more than 20 feet, and usually within 5 feet. At that range, the danger of becoming engaged in a fight for your gun is very high - you may face having to defend your weapon, as well as yourself! And I agree with you that the reverse is also true - a true martial artist should at least be proficient with the bare fundamentals (e.g. feet, hands, elbows, etc.) and the best weapon that is practical for personal defense (firearm). When you get right down to it, the only weapons you can be sure about having with you when you need them, are the ones you were born with. Learn to use them, too. I always get a laugh out of the "That karate stuff is useless - I'll just go to my car and get my gun" comment. I always wonder, "what kind of idiot would stand around and wait?".

The "art" part of martial arts were/are very important. Remember, all through history, the people who are trained to fight and defend a society are themselves a part of it. It's possible for a human mind to become so obsessed with fighting that they forget why they're fighting, then combat becomes the end, not the means - a dangerous thing, indeed. Someone who constantly practices the techniques of destroying life should be constantly reminded of the beauty, rarity, and sanctity of life, lest they should become unbalanced (there's that philosophy again).

Anyway, that's my free opinion, take it for what it's worth...
 
Of course knowing how to use a firearm is a martial art - martial means "having to do with the military" or "proper to the military" and martial arts are those "arts" or attributes which are proper to the military. So the "martial arts" - as differentiated from "liberal arts" or "entertainment arts" or "healing arts" - would be those proper to the warrior. They would include of course, the virtues associated with a warrior - principally courage and strength - as well as the ability to lead, the knowledge of strategy and tactics, fighting ability and knowing how to use weapons properly. In the modern sense, this includes firearms - but also includes flying fighter planes, sailing attack submarines, commanding an aircraft carrier - these all are practical, modern "martial arts."

Unfortunately, the modern American military rarely tries to produce "martial artists" - they try to produce bureaucrats and managers.
(One exception is the USMC). The warriors show themselves after the combat has started and tend to leave shortly after its finished. Look at the difference between the Navy of Pearl Harbor and the Navy of the Battle of Midway.
 
Martial arts are truly wonderful in a myriad of ways. I respect those who
have mastered themselves and such skills.

If your comments had been restricted to qualifications of a well-rounded
martial artist I would have marveled at the height and breadth of your
knowledge and skills.

However, to imply that those who do not study martial arts or go to
Thunder Ranch are deserving of the insults you have heaped upon us is a
bit over the top. I don’t believe the non-martial artists of world are
obsolete, incomplete, fat, lazy, sit-at-home, soft target, CCL types who
could never defend our country.

In fact, I find such implications truly offensive and unworthy of your
otherwise fine traits and opinions.

While you are broadening your valuable Oriental skills, please remember
that there are worthy people in the world who are not skilled in martial arts
or even firearms. Learn to appreciate such people for the knowledge, skills, and contributions they have made. They are as valuable as the opera, literature, and art.
 
This is by James Yeager. Taken from www.waverly.net/redwards/arts.html

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Martial Arts and handguns

Practical application of firearms in a self defense role is
relatively new concept. It has often been said that the handgun is the
modern sword. I can see logic in that statement.

The sword was the epitome of personal defense for a LONG time. The
pistol's ease of carry and distance benifit make it our choice as modern
"warriors".

There are many facets to those of us who carry firearms. Many carry a
gun they percieve as "cool". This is frequently observed in training
schools. Whatever the instructor carries must be the best and so that is
what I will carry. This is done regardless of the students ability to
USE said gun.

Then there is the guy who shows up at the match with his full size
pistol. You know this guy. He doesn't actually carry that gun unless he
is coming to a match. He typically carries a "mousegun" of some sort. He
is the funniest because he makes fun of your medium sized 9mm or 40cal
that you carry EVERY WAKING MOMENT. You train with it religiously and
are lethal.

Next is the person who buys the gun and no ammo (they do exist). They
do this because they could never kill anyone. They just want to scare
people with it. Sometimes they buy ammo to shoot people in the leg.
Idiots.

Then there is the person who knows absolutely nothing about handguns.
He is a man and therefore he knows about weapons. He buys the gun, a box
of practice rounds, and a box hollowpoints and you never see him again.
To him the gun is a talisman or magical charm that will ward off evil
spirits. The fool never shoots the hollowpoints to see if they even
function in his weapon. He merely owns a weapon and thinks he is somehow
safer.

Then there are the martial artists. We get up every single day and
strap on the same gun. We do not switch guns all the time. We study the
tactical aspects of self preservation. We shoot in the rain, heat, cold,
and sometimes when it is nice outside.

Even though some of us are instructors we never say or think we know
it all. Defending ourselves is a way of life, a heritage to be passed
along to anyone who will learn from us.

I urge all of you to learn a much as you can. If you have mastered
pistol then move on to something else. Shotgun, Carbine, long range,
knife, hand-to-hand and all the related tactics.

Learn it all and be a "Master" of a true marial art. After you get
into it deeply enough you will know what I am refering to when I say you
will "find" yourself. Kind of like a "Zen".

If you are laughing then you haven't traveled the same path I have to
discover self reliance. Those of you who were ahead of me know what I
mean. There is a feeling of pride when you become aware.

I would like to point out some guys who have influenced me for some
time. Guys like Tom Givens, Jim Higginbotham and Andy Stanford are just
the beginning of a long list. These three are true gentlemen and are
sharing a precious way of life.

Even if you have never studied under them they deserve your respect
for all they have done for us and our culture. They are truly masters
and set a fine example of how we should help each other.

Get serious about training ....today.[/quote]

I couldn't say it any better.
 
To me, the question sort of doesn't make sense, since any 'art' pertaining to combat, self-defense, fighting, etc is a martial art.

As responsible, self-reliant citizens of this country, it behooves us to be capable of defending ourselves with other implements than firearms. A gun is a tool, but it is not an appropriate tool for every encounter. If all you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail...

That being said, I take umbrage at the remark that "Having no close-quarters unarmed skills mean that most gunners can only gun. (These are generally the fat and lazy sit-at-home CCL types, as opposed to the active and dedicated Thunder Ranch people...". I do not make $60K a year, I am not debt-free, I am not single or otherwise unattached. I am married, with one 6yo and one 4 mo old- I have neither time nor funds to take Jeet Kune Do lessons, Iaido classes, or to attend classes at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, or Ayoob's LFI. I do practice with my firearm whenever possible, which I carry EVERY day.

I know what I would be defending, and why, every day when I come home from work. I am a fan of/hobbyist in Les Miserables, Aaron Copland, Beethoven, Enya, Yanni, Star Wars, Tom Clancy, JRR Tolkien, George RR Martin, AD&D, general science fiction... you get the idea. I consider myself to be quite well-rounded, despite the fact I am not a master of the katana. As far as eastern martial arts go- as a Christian, I find the Buddhism/mysticism of such to be distasteful, so I have not studied them. There is nothing 'mystic' or 'spiritual' to me about the use of firearms, either. It is an essential skill of survival, and an enjoyable activity. No more, no less.

Does this make me a 'fat-lazy' CHL holder? To all- please don't let your greater availability for (and access to) training oppurtunities turn you into a "gun snob".

(Rant mode off, increase power to front deflector screens). ;)

------------------
Lady Justice has been raped, truth assassin;
Rolls of red tape seal your lips, now you're done in;
Their money tips her scales again, make your deal;
Just what is truth? I cannot tell, cannot feel.

The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe, I can't believe the price we pay- nothing can save us
Justice is lost, Justice is raped, Justice is gone
Pulling your strings,Justice is done...
Seeking no truth, winning is all,
Find it so grim, so true, so real....

If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!



[This message has been edited by Jedi Oomodo (edited November 09, 1999).]
 
Well, the article says it better than I could. In my limited experience, genuine experts are in any endeavor are rare, true artists are nearly non-existant. There's a big difference between the person who shows up for karate class twice a week, and the person who is truly driven to become the best he/she can be. To most, martial arts (and I including shooting) are a hobby, not a way of life. Not everyone who owns a gun or goes to the range occasionally is an artist - or even an expert. I consider myself a "hobbyist" at both.

On the other hand there are tons of self-proclaimed firearms and martial arts "experts" out there. As one person put it to me, "you'll hardly ever meet a man who isn't an expert shot or a good fighter - if you don't believe me, just ask 'em!" ;) ;)

I don't believe that people who don't study martial arts, or even people who have never picked up a gun are by definition fat, lazy, or whatever insult anyone wishes to heap upon them, and I don't believe Spectre does either. Firearms and/or unarmed combat training isn't for everyone, it's a personal choice - some of my best friends don't like guns (that's okay, as long as they respect my right to own what I choose) and have never set foot in a dojo/dojang.

But, I do believe that if you choose to carry a firearm, you should know how and when to use it! It's just part of the responsibility of controlling a lethal weapon. I feel the same way about automobiles.

Addendum: Umm, I didn't mean you should necessarily study an eastern martial art - there are several western arts that would make you a capable unarmed combatant, and there are several eastern styles that don't emphasize mysticism or Buddhism. BTW, Zen isn't a religion, it's a philosophy - Buddhism is a religion.
I think I selected my words poorly when I said the bit about the mystic experience - what I was talking about is not really a religious thing, it's like being in a "zone" or "groove" where you perform above your capabilities, without really focusing on what you're doing - the oriental term is "mushin" or "no-mind". It takes a certain level of expertise to get there (I've experienced it a few times in martial arts, and once, strangely enough, playing pool). I've heard football players, pool players, bowlers, etc., refer to it, but I rarely hear anyone talk about it with relation to shooting. Maybe it just goes back to rarity of truly skilled practioners, maybe the noise of firing breaks concentration, I don't know - I know I'm nowhere near the skill level to experience it.

[This message has been edited by Danger Dave (edited November 09, 1999).]
 
True so true george.

To answer the riddle of steel: "what is steel to the hand that weilds it?"

The mind is the most dangerous weapon we posess. The mind that can create masterworks in poetry painting engineering and bioweapons. So, think about FEEDING that big brain. Read a challenging book, take in a museum show, paint something, play scrabble. Use all your faculties.

The samurai were supposed to be masters of spontaneous haiku.. what ever profound sense of joy or dread was supposed to be adressed and adressed WELL in poetry. This was true in many caste sytems where the warriors weren't really worriued about where their next meal was coming from. Serfs didn't have much time for poetry or advanced mathematics and falconry.

I have recently decided to take up fencing as a sport because its a martial/competive/ritualized sport form, but its also good exercise. I'm betting I'll shoot better than I fence (at first). But really, practice is the key to ANY martial form.

I once had an orange belt in judo... does that make me a budoka??? NOPE. I shoot my guns around once a month.. does that make me a shootist? NOPE. The more you practice the better you will be.

Lets face it we all don't have the time and energy and aren't PAID to shoot everyday and make those 1000 yard shots in high wind.. but if we practiced we could.

HOWEVER, I do try to challenge my mind often. I read a lot, i draw and paint, i write poetry, I try to solve problems. Does this make me smarter?? Maybe.. but it does make me more perceptive.. adaptive in my thinking and reasoning ability. Maybe it will make me evaluate a situation faster.

Most martial skills SEEM to me to be taught with a heavy moral responsibilty to NON violence and defensive posture, with the possible exception of fighting techniques taught to LEO's and the military. The hardness of the open hand is tempered with the clear mind etc. I hope this ends up being true of fencing as well.

My 2¢

Dr.Rob
 
Thanks, everyone! You all have some pointed ideas. Cutting to the chase now that you all have responded, I believe in Musashi's premise of "learn all that you can" (_Book of Five Rings_.

I a 3rd dan in and teach tae kwon do (got home about an hour ago). Mixed in with my formal training in TKD is boxing, jujitsu, hapkido, and kempo. My instructor also passed along self-defense and weapons training (bo, nunchakus, sword, and knife). One month ago I bought my Glock, and I understand the value of having that modern sword, so to speak, in a world that began tossing the real swords out with the matchlock.

I teach high school English. I also write (both prose and poetry). Balancing the martial with the artful is a daily goal. Again, as Musashi said, we should be able to see the Way (of strategy), in all things.

And for the record, I thank God that He provided me with a mind--a mind as biologically the same as the minds which developed the various styles of martial arts, weapons, guns, democracy, the arts, etc., etc. Each day I strive to learn more and to appreciate better the world around me. One of those vehicles for perceiving the world around me is self-defense.

I'm thrilled to be in the presence of like minded individuals. Thanks to all for some fresh perspectives. Keep them coming. After all, the free exchange of ideas is utmost in that document we on this site hold dear.
 
Sure I'm a martial artist, my specialty is Mom-Ma-Do. I am a mother of two children and all my time is taken up with the care of them and my home. I am a warrior in the sense that I will fight for my children's well-being if need be. I home school my children and believe me, you gotta be made of boiled leather to do that.

When I first read this thread I got incensed at the comment made about "fat lazy sit-at-home CCL types." I take offense to that remark. I, at this point in my life, do not have the time or money to get into Eastern or Western martial arts or Thunder Ranch type stuff, and don't think it is necessary to do so in order to be able to defend myself effectively.

Sure, it'd be great to take Ayoob's classes as well as a martial arts discipline, but as I said, no money and no time. As I see it, if you have the means to do it, go for it. But if you don't, don't sweat it. One cannot be 100% prepared for all possible situations that may occur in life (as the anti's seem too stupid to see).

I feed my mind. I read literature (GO TOM CLANCY! ;) )(I love the Celtic legend of Myrddin, who was a warrior, king, poet and bard); listen to classical music; am a big fan of Les Miserables; attempt to play chess; and am also an artist and a poet. I go to the range whenever I can, usually once a month at this point and when my CCW comes (soon I hope) I will carry my gun everyday, and stake my life on it and my effectiveness with it.

You don't have to be Jean Claude van Damme/Steven Seagal and Rambo/Schwarzenegger all in one package to take care of most BG's who might threaten your life...

My $ .02....


------------------
"Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!

[This message has been edited by Darthmaum (edited November 09, 1999).]
 
George,

That was beautiful. I didn't know you had it in you! :)


Carl, well spoken.


Dennis, you're obviously pissed at me, and not Johnny. I was merely making the distinction- in what I thought was a succinct but understandable fashion- between those who actually care enough to train, and those who believe (as Morgan quoted) that merely owning a firearm makes them safe. You have been around long enough to know that I train in an Asian martial art-but you won't find that in my prior post in this thread, nor will you find any glorification of any thing inherently Asian. You will find me urging folks to be well-rounded. You will also find no denigration of those who have chosen other paths in my prior post. Thanks for the kind words you included. Please read my post again. If you are still upset after that, feel free to write me.

Jedi, do you care enough to train with your weapon of choice? Do you take the time to keep yourself in reasonable shape? I see you mention "Jeet Kune Do lessons" and "Iaido", but I didn't say anything about any Asian art. I'm sure you do have the money to buy a used heavy bag to hang somewhere around where you live. I know of a local PD that gives boxing lessons for free. It's hard to believe you can't find similar suitable training opportunities, while maintaining your familial responsibilities. Perhaps you could point out where I mentioned in my post

1)Philosophy (other than being prepared)
2)Mastery of any specific archaic weapon
3)Marital ties

So: take all the umbrage you want, I'll make more. :D People make choices and sacrifices. Perhaps we can discuss trading the thousands of miles and hundreds of hours I have invested into my hand-to-hand training for your apparently happy family. In a nutshell, don't believe that it was easy for me, either. I've made my choices. I am happy to believe, sir, that you take your responsibility as an armed citizen seriously, but I cannot speak for your weight or your inclinations.

I can say that, being Americans, most American gun-owners are fat and lazy, though probably less so than the typical American. Look at our pathetic population, and don't blame me for noticing. OTOH, those I have seen that were willing to take responsibility for their training have almost universally been in considerably better-than-average shape. As I said, hard targets. If any of you reading this are fat and lazy, do something about it, other than fuming at someone only a few of you have met in person, when you're really upset at yourself.

Dave, you're right. Thanks.

John
(Who loves good music, writes poetry, and admires the prowess of James Thurber, Kenneth Roberts, Tom Clancy, Steven King, E.A. Poe, and who has even been known to like Yanni and Enya, as well.)
 
Spectre,

Not all of my commentary was directed specifically at you (mastery of ancient weapons, philosophy, et al). Part of it was also me digressing into how I personally approach my defense, within the means at my disposal. That is where mention of philosophy came in. Such is the result of having 8 coworkers right by you, able to see what you're doing at all times, and having to limit the time spent on typing replies to about 10 minutes :(.

As for having the money to buy a used heavy bag- no, I don't have the money to get one. I am the only one in my home who is employed outside it, so we must be careful with our money, though if you could give me some idea as to how much a 'used heavy bag' would cost and where I might could find one, perhaps I could consider it, after all. Any pointers, as well, on how I could train myself on it ;)? Unfortunately, my friend, I don't know of any PD or SD in my area who is willing to assume the liability risk of teaching locals how to fight or shoot :(.

In addition, I see the value in training like you have, but I choose not to. Since I work three 12 hr and one 8 hr day each week, I have neither the time nor inclination. I do enough to train with my chosen weapon as much as I am able, and I am in decent shape, but I could be better. I'm sure it took a lot of hard work for you to get to where you're at, and I don't envy you it ;). I've made difficult choices, as well, to get where I'm at, and I don't regret any of it.

------------------
Lady Justice has been raped, truth assassin;
Rolls of red tape seal your lips, now you're done in;
Their money tips her scales again, make your deal;
Just what is truth? I cannot tell, cannot feel.

The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe, I can't believe the price we pay- nothing can save us
Justice is lost, Justice is raped, Justice is gone
Pulling your strings,Justice is done...
Seeking no truth, winning is all,
Find it so grim, so true, so real....

If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
 
Did I mention that I'm quite proficient at Tae-Bo? ;)

Actually, Spectre, that is my feeble attempt at trying to get into better shape, along with lifting weights and such. I have definitely been more fit than I am now, but such is life after having two kids. But (best Monty Python imitation) "I'm getting better" and "I'm not dead yet!"

I agree with you that being physically fit is important (I am assuming that it is important to you, considering how hard you seem to have worked at your chosen "art") and too many people these days let themselves go and don't take care of their bodies. While working in the medical field, I saw the results of that kind of lifestyle.

Being a woman, I wouldn't want to get into a HTH fight with a man, whether I knew some kind of martial art or not. That's why I carry a gun, to help even the odds, so to speak. Out of curiousity, do you personally know of women who can actually "whoop up" on a man, if she's got a "belt" in some MA?

If I were to take a MA class someday, which I would be interested in, I wouldn't want to take one of those "empty-handed" women's self-defense courses, but a true, serious class. Which ones are most effective for women?

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"Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!
 
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