Gun Show Loophole?
- Thread starter mongrel66
- Start date
Mongrel I'm puzzled by this also. I live in Pa. and its the same thing here. You buy a gun at a gun show you fill out the same forms and submit to insta chek. I believe what the politicos are trying to stop is individual sales among the crowd. But in my state if you and I made a deal on a handgun we would still have to finalize with a dealer and pay him for the paperwork. But if you and I made a deal on a shotgun you give me the money I give you the gun and we both walk our separate ways. I think that is what they are talking about but are trying to make the whole gun show business look evil and dirty.
Bottom line, Those ***holes really don't know what they are talking about and they are just trying to make the whole thing evil and dirty.
Hope this helps
Happy Shooting
------------------
We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
Bottom line, Those ***holes really don't know what they are talking about and they are just trying to make the whole thing evil and dirty.
Hope this helps
Happy Shooting
------------------
We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
loknload, you're right on this. While state laws differ, the gun show bill would require every sale--even private transactions--to go through a licensed dealer and be subject to the NCICS check and waiting period. As if that's not bad enough, it doesn't end at the gun show. Let's say you and I meet at a gun show (or anyplace where there are 50 or more guns for sale). You have a rifle, but I'm not interested in buying it. Three months later I change my mind, call you and we strike a deal. If we don't go to an FFL for the check and waiting period, we're in violation of the law because technically the deal was initiated at a gun show.
This is just another case of where we've been outflanked by the anti's choice of words. The
bill should be refered to as the "private transaction" ban.
Grrrrr.
Dick
This is just another case of where we've been outflanked by the anti's choice of words. The
bill should be refered to as the "private transaction" ban.
Grrrrr.
Dick
I think the so-called "loophole" refers to private sales. Sometimes, private sellers will buy a booth at a show to sell of some of their collection (a widow of a gun enthusiast would fit this description). Essentially the seller is not a FFL dealer and is not subject to the NICS. Those frustrated teens from Columbine had their friend buy their weapons this way.
The way the media and liberals portray it is that ALL vendors do not need a background check. HOGWASH. A FFL dealer at a gun show still has to do the NICS BS, no exceptions.
If this gun show 'loophole' is closed by requiring private sales at gun shows to be subject to the NICS, the next step will be a required NICS on sales out of your home, sales to a friend, sales to a relative, gift to you wife/kids/parents/etc. Give a nanometer, they take a kilometer.
As loknload stated, gun shows are being portrayed as 'evil'. The mayor of my hometown Grayslake, IL wants to shut down the monthly gun show at the Lake County Fairgrounds (in Grayslake). This is the best show in the Chicagoland area, and I will be very angry if it is shut down.
The way the media and liberals portray it is that ALL vendors do not need a background check. HOGWASH. A FFL dealer at a gun show still has to do the NICS BS, no exceptions.
If this gun show 'loophole' is closed by requiring private sales at gun shows to be subject to the NICS, the next step will be a required NICS on sales out of your home, sales to a friend, sales to a relative, gift to you wife/kids/parents/etc. Give a nanometer, they take a kilometer.
As loknload stated, gun shows are being portrayed as 'evil'. The mayor of my hometown Grayslake, IL wants to shut down the monthly gun show at the Lake County Fairgrounds (in Grayslake). This is the best show in the Chicagoland area, and I will be very angry if it is shut down.
Short Bursts
New member
The administration and most anti-gun groups want to outlaw sales of guns from one private individual to anotherto force any such sales to be conducted through a FFL dealer. There objective is to get Federal BATF forms on all gun sales and to force the buyers in private sales to have "Instant" background checks. They would also require a 10 day waiting period (simikar to the current law in California) before the buyer could take possesion of the gun. The gun show "Loop hole" is the first step in their strategy.
..found my own answer... http://www.handguncontrol.org/moreloop.htm
Jeff Thomas
New member
mongrel, how much of HCI's explanation are you going to accept? Just curious.
The truth is that state laws differ. In Arizona, private sellers can sell firearms to other private parties just as they would sell any other good. Closing the gun show 'loophole' would simply require private sales at such shows to pass through an FFL or at least a NICS check. The next step, of course (driven by 'paranoia', according to HCI) will be to attack the remainder of private sales as well.
Of course, most of the media have done a good job of making the public feel as though 4473's don't apply at gun shows ...
If you frequent gun shows, you've already noticed the miniscule number of transactions conducted between private parties, relative to the FFL business.
I especially enjoy HCI's argument that having a complete record of all gun owners will facilitate our receiving our guns back if they are ever stolen. That's rich. So glad they're watching out for us.
The bottom line is the same old concern - does registration equal confiscation? If you require all firearm transfers to use an FFL, that is effectively the result over time - registration of all firearms.
And, the recent news from California provides an unequivocal reminder of how 'paranoid' registration concerns really are - see www.sksbuyback.org , and http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/legal/damages-doj.shtml (re: confiscation of all so-called 'assault weapons' registered after CA's cutoff date).
The truth is that state laws differ. In Arizona, private sellers can sell firearms to other private parties just as they would sell any other good. Closing the gun show 'loophole' would simply require private sales at such shows to pass through an FFL or at least a NICS check. The next step, of course (driven by 'paranoia', according to HCI) will be to attack the remainder of private sales as well.
Of course, most of the media have done a good job of making the public feel as though 4473's don't apply at gun shows ...
If you frequent gun shows, you've already noticed the miniscule number of transactions conducted between private parties, relative to the FFL business.
I especially enjoy HCI's argument that having a complete record of all gun owners will facilitate our receiving our guns back if they are ever stolen. That's rich. So glad they're watching out for us.
The bottom line is the same old concern - does registration equal confiscation? If you require all firearm transfers to use an FFL, that is effectively the result over time - registration of all firearms.
And, the recent news from California provides an unequivocal reminder of how 'paranoid' registration concerns really are - see www.sksbuyback.org , and http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/legal/damages-doj.shtml (re: confiscation of all so-called 'assault weapons' registered after CA's cutoff date).
Paul Revere
New member
The anti-gunners are using deception, smoke and mirrors, and outright lies regarding this subject. On one hand they make people believe that gun shows are somehow exempt from the NICS/4473 process, and on the other hand they purposely avoid telling you exactly what they're really after.
Firstly, gun shows aside for a moment, you must convince yourself that the NICS/4473 process is more than a "background check", because it is. It is actually an illegal registration scheme that has convinced law abiding gunowners that they shouldn't have anything to hide. However, what results from the NICS/4473 process is a database entry which includes your name, address, identifying number(s), and the make and model of your purchased firearm(s) (your private property). Regardless of what you are told to the contrary, NICS/4473 IS REGISTRATION!!!
Secondly, using logic, would it make any sense whatsoever to do a background check and induce waiting periods for a person trading in a S&W revolver even up on a Glock 26 (for example)? Think about that...the guy walks into the gun show (or gun shop) with a gun in his possession. The idea of waiting periods to allow a "cooling off" period are completely blown out the window. What about a collector who may already have 20-30 guns at home (or even just one)? The true purpose of the NICS/4473 process is obsured by this phoney slight of hand. The purpose is to REGISTER as many firearms into the NICS/4473 process as possible.
And this is where the gun show "loophole" comes in. Since private party transactions are all but exempt from having to participate in the NICS/4473 registration scheme (whether they be at gun shows or at private residences), the leftists are clammering to get them included as well. But they are going after this subject with lies, deception, smoke and mirrors, fabrications, propaganda, and horror stories to win over those sheeple who have never been to a gun show and do not understand what the truth really is.
Gun owners believe they are somehow doing a good deed by submitting to the NICS/4473 tyranny, proudly proclaiming their status as a law abiding citizen when the results of the FBI check are returned. What they've actually done, is added whatever firearm they've just purchased to a federal database. Does anyone need a refresher course on what happens next?
Firstly, gun shows aside for a moment, you must convince yourself that the NICS/4473 process is more than a "background check", because it is. It is actually an illegal registration scheme that has convinced law abiding gunowners that they shouldn't have anything to hide. However, what results from the NICS/4473 process is a database entry which includes your name, address, identifying number(s), and the make and model of your purchased firearm(s) (your private property). Regardless of what you are told to the contrary, NICS/4473 IS REGISTRATION!!!
Secondly, using logic, would it make any sense whatsoever to do a background check and induce waiting periods for a person trading in a S&W revolver even up on a Glock 26 (for example)? Think about that...the guy walks into the gun show (or gun shop) with a gun in his possession. The idea of waiting periods to allow a "cooling off" period are completely blown out the window. What about a collector who may already have 20-30 guns at home (or even just one)? The true purpose of the NICS/4473 process is obsured by this phoney slight of hand. The purpose is to REGISTER as many firearms into the NICS/4473 process as possible.
And this is where the gun show "loophole" comes in. Since private party transactions are all but exempt from having to participate in the NICS/4473 registration scheme (whether they be at gun shows or at private residences), the leftists are clammering to get them included as well. But they are going after this subject with lies, deception, smoke and mirrors, fabrications, propaganda, and horror stories to win over those sheeple who have never been to a gun show and do not understand what the truth really is.
Gun owners believe they are somehow doing a good deed by submitting to the NICS/4473 tyranny, proudly proclaiming their status as a law abiding citizen when the results of the FBI check are returned. What they've actually done, is added whatever firearm they've just purchased to a federal database. Does anyone need a refresher course on what happens next?
Mongrel..
As others have told you, the "loophole" is private sales...period.
No sensible FFL would jeopardize his/her status by not adhereing to the rules...they are required to! Further, if the so-called loophole were applicable to dealers...only a moron would have a store front, dealers would exclusively sell at gunshows. Low overhead, no shop insurance.
The whole purpose is to remove a gathering place wherein private sales could occur. Newspapers in Calif no longer carry gun sale ads in the classifieds unless the ad states that the gun is at So and So's gunshop and the sale is an FFL. The sole reason was to limit unmonitored gun transfers by removing a source of information. I.e. Unless you know Joe Blow, you don't know he has a gun for sale.
------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
As others have told you, the "loophole" is private sales...period.
No sensible FFL would jeopardize his/her status by not adhereing to the rules...they are required to! Further, if the so-called loophole were applicable to dealers...only a moron would have a store front, dealers would exclusively sell at gunshows. Low overhead, no shop insurance.
The whole purpose is to remove a gathering place wherein private sales could occur. Newspapers in Calif no longer carry gun sale ads in the classifieds unless the ad states that the gun is at So and So's gunshop and the sale is an FFL. The sole reason was to limit unmonitored gun transfers by removing a source of information. I.e. Unless you know Joe Blow, you don't know he has a gun for sale.
------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!