Gun Safeties?

T

Tim Croley

New member
I don't know a whole lot about SA autos, but I read somewhere, maybe here, that the Browning High Power was an improved design over the 1911. Is this correct?
I've also noticed that the High Power doesn't have the grip safety that the 1911 has. By just looking at the two designs, it seems that the 1911 would be the safest/best design because of the extra safety. Please explain the differences and tell me which design is the best and or safest. Thanks!
 
Tim,

The original 1911 is far more popular, just a guess but by more then 100 to 1, then the Hi-power, that should tell you something. It is also less abusive on the hands.

The only "TRUE" safety on any firearm is to keep your trigger finger off of the trigger. Any mechanical safety can fail. Remember:

1) ALWAYS treat all firearms as if they are always loaded.
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger OFF of the trigger and in fact, out of the trigger guard, until your sights are on your target and you have made the intelectual decission to shoot.
4. Know what is in front of and behind your intended target and if they in the line of fire.

Good shooting,

Dean
 
The grip safety was originally intended to prevent the pistol from firing if dropped, but in the 1911 type pistols it does not do that, only blocking the trigger.

Colt put grip safeties on other guns apparently more to make sure the shooter's hand was out of the way of the slide than for any other reason, though the pocket model and vest pocket model grip safeties really do block the sear.

The real reason for any manual safety is to prevent the gun from firing if the trigger is moved accidentally, so Dean has a point, at least on the range. Total dependence on a manual safety should not take the place of good safety practice, as we know from people being killed while someone was "testing" the safety.

But, on the other hand, I would not want to carry a SA automatic with the chamber loaded and the safety off. I have become very fond of my toes, and like to continue to keep all of them.

Jim
 
John Browning didn't design the 1911 with a grip safety. He only added it because the Department of the Army insisted on it.

He worked for many years designing other firearms and invested a lot of time in a similar design but it was his protege, Dieudonne Saive, who eventually developed the pistol. It was named in honor of John.
 
I don't know a whole lot about SA autos, but I read somewhere, maybe here, that the Browning High Power was an improved design over the 1911. Is this correct?
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I disagree. I hear that all the time, but I say it is hogwash. They are two different guns designed by the same firearms genius who designed tons of other fine guns. Actually the HiPower we see in its finished form has little of Browning's touches. That guy at FN (I can't ever remember his name) changed alot before it went into production. I have yet to find anything on the 1911 that needed improving upon. I do like the HiPower alot also though.
 
I love my 1911 more than all my other guns put together, but I'm not crazy. External extractors are superior in every way. I would gladly forfeit the authenticity of a 1911 for an external extractor.

Otherwise, it's perfect.
 
Mandatory safety.
The brain of the holder of the gun.

All others are optional and only work in conjunction with brain.

Sam
 
Rule #3!

I still don't know why people get jumpy over the 1911 but are just ducky with the Glock or Crock.

"If I want to do something stupid, like shoot myself, at least I have to take the safety off my pistol [Les Baer 1911]. With a Glock all I have to do is press the trigger." Clint Smith, Director, TR, Inc., May 10, 2001. Yeah, but if you adhere to Rule #3 (not to mention Rule #2 and #4) you won't have a problem with whatever magic sword you choose.
 
In my mind the grip safety on a 1911 is of very little value since it disengages the minute you put your hand on the gun. That isn't really a differentiator between the two guns. Most would agree the HI-Power is a simplified design compared to the 1911, but simpler isn't always better. The HP trigger is dead awful from the factory and takes some considerable skill to make it decent (and it can never be as good as a tuned 1911 trigger). The 1911 is capable of shooting better than a HP and the proof is in the thousands of 1911's used for competition (and all the titles won by them). I think the 1911 gives a lot more for the money.

BTW: the original HP had only one safety (the sear blocking safety lever on the frame) which meant it was carried cocked-and-locked with just that single safety on. In about 1990, they added the firing pin blocking safety. Some newer 1911's like the Kimbers now have a firing-pin blocking safety, although they haven't got all the bugs out of it from what I read.
 
Tim,

On modern double action pistols, there is no need for manual safeties. The grip safety was a bureaucratic stupidity of the army.

While the 1911 is one of the most popular of the old-timey pistols, the Browning Hi-Power is a slightly more modern design.

The best of the best today, though, are the modern pistols made by Glock, Sig, Beretta, and HK. I dearly love my old1911A1, and take it to the range often. But single action autos are yesterday, and the Glock is tomorrow.
 
But single action autos are yesterday, and the Glock is tomorrow.
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If that is true...then the future of firearms looks bleak indeed. I think I'll just keep living in the past with my antiquated 1911 and its friends the single and double action revolvers. I sure do feel helpless only having the guns of yesterday to protect me. If only I had a Glock I would be so much better armed. :rolleyes:
 
But single action autos are yesterday, and the Glock is tomorrow.
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I disagree, although I own two DA autos, one of which is DAO. I see no inherent advantage to the Glock (or any other DA) over SA pistols. The choice of weapon cannot be evaluated without considering the shooter. Some folks will shoot one or the other better. As far as safety, what is the US military's experience regarding ADs with Berrettas as opposed to that of 1911s?
 
Yep single actions are a thing of the past. I'll be sure to pass that on to Springfield, Kimber, Colt, STI, SVI, Valtro, Ed Brown, Wilson, Les Baer, Rock Island, Rock River, Para Ordnance, Caspian, Griffon, etc. etc... Even though the 1911 is selling better than just about any other type of handgun, and is in fact going through a new golden age, it is a thing of the past.

I'll also make sure I tell all of the hundreds of smiths, and after market parts and accesory makers out there. And I'll be sure not to forget the thousands and thousands of competitors in IPSC and IDPA who use some variation of single action.

Us poor fools that carry 1911s are doomed to extinction in the face of the plastic striker fired wonder gun! All those dinosaurs out there, like Leatham, Koenig, Enos, fools the lot of them! All hail Gaston!

Military units like Delta, and Force Recon (who just ordered a pile of MEU-SOC 1911s) are obvious suckers too.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


And on a serious note, the external vs. internal extractor. We always hear about how the external extractor is so much better.

1. The main reason manufacturers use the external model is that it is cheaper to make.
2. Take a look at any gun, from any manufacturer, that has an external extractor, that has had a catastrophic case failure (i.e. KaBoom) Usually the extractor gets blown off of the gun, and forms a great secondary missle. Anybody ever seen an internal extractor get blown off? I've seen a bad one sheared off, but thats it.
3. Internal extractors are supposed to constantly malfunction, and be difficult to tension. I can count on one hand the number of people that I've met who have had this problem.
4. The original Hi-Power prototype (from Browning, not Saive) had an internal extractor. I've seen it. It is in Ogden Utah. However one of the original 1911 prototypes had an external extractor and a concealed hammer. Browning was a genius who didn't limit himself or his designs. He experimented, and used all sorts of different designs. I think he would laugh at us gun folks today who blather on about how one design is "perfection".
 
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