Hello everyone. I am in the market for a small single stack 9mm handgun. The purpose is for concealed carry and personal protection. I have been looking at the popular options out there. I am seriously thinking about the Ruger LC9s. This is where my question comes in. The Taurus PT709 Slim is a similar product to the Ruger LC9s and several other guns in this segment. That being the case, why is the Taurus $75-$100 less out the door than the Ruger? I am not interested in showing off my gun or trying to one up the next guy, etc. I simply want a quality self defense concealed carry handgun. The same question and be applied to a small revolver. What is the Charter Arms or Taurus offering less expensive than the Ruger or S&W? All of the gun go bang. In reality modern firearms and ammo are reliable. The days of "Charter Arms/Taurus gun are junk" are over and have been for decades. Again, why such a big price gap for what on the surface appear to be very similar products? Thanks for the help.
Gun Quality vs. Price. (advice wanted)
- Thread starter s1mp13m4n
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Cheapshooter
New member
One can be labor cost. USA vs Brazill. Also the use of less labor intensive methods. MIM parts, etc.
Taurus still has somewhat of a reputation for lower QC standards, but from my own personal experience, I haven't seen it.
Taurus still has somewhat of a reputation for lower QC standards, but from my own personal experience, I haven't seen it.
buckhorn_cortez
New member
Very simple, different labor and overhead costs and possibly a different profit markup.
If you want a Taurus or Charter Arms because of the lower cost, then that's what you should buy.
If you want a Taurus or Charter Arms because of the lower cost, then that's what you should buy.
Evil Monkey
New member
No, you see, Taurus guns are more junk today than ever. Their CS doesn't exist either. Go on taurusarmed.net and see for your self. I used to be a Taurus owner too.
Spend the money on something reputable. As far as I'm concerned, it's "buy once, cry once".
You wanna buy crap? You're gonna be crying for a long time.
Spend the money on something reputable. As far as I'm concerned, it's "buy once, cry once".
You wanna buy crap? You're gonna be crying for a long time.
I own words Taurus handguns, a PT111 G2 and a PT92. Both are nice quality guns, especially for the price. The PT111 feels like it has some looser tolerances, which isn't neccesarily a bad thing especially for reliability.
Right now, Taurus will probably be especially slow because of the settlement over the Millennium series (which was just the first generation guns). Their customer service can be hit or miss at times, but I've never had any issues myself.
Even though I like my PT111 though, I would like to trade it in for a Ruger SR9C.
Right now, Taurus will probably be especially slow because of the settlement over the Millennium series (which was just the first generation guns). Their customer service can be hit or miss at times, but I've never had any issues myself.
Even though I like my PT111 though, I would like to trade it in for a Ruger SR9C.
Alright I see what you are saying. In a nutshell you are paying for better quality control and customer service. That does make sense. I am not looking to buy junk BUT I do want to get a balance between quality, up front cost, and long term value. The gun would more than likely remain stock. I am no gunsmith and there is no way I could make a firearm better or more reliable than the ones who designed it, manufactured it, and spent who knows how much money in the process. 
I am looking for a value for the money firearm.
I am looking for a value for the money firearm.See this-
http://www.gunsandammo.com/handguns/compacts/single-stack-9mm-shootout/
I enjoyed this article very much. And the 709 faired quite well against some great competition.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/handguns/compacts/single-stack-9mm-shootout/
I enjoyed this article very much. And the 709 faired quite well against some great competition.
Cheapshooter
New member
My personal choice, if I didn't already have a Kahr CM9 that I am very happy with, would be the LC9s PRO. Not necessarily because of preceived better quality, but because of what I feel is better design. No unessary manual safety.
Also, the Glock 43, and Springfield XD-S 9 would be high on my list.
Also, the Glock 43, and Springfield XD-S 9 would be high on my list.
lee n. field
New member
Because customer support costs money.
Go ahead and try them.
Buy the gun you want. Taurus is cheaper because that is their way into the market. They cant compete with big names like glock and smith and wesson who already own a market share so they are going to be cheaper to get sales. Taurus guns are just fine and work well. No matter what brand you buy you need to go to the range and put a few hundred rounds through if not more to make sure its reliable. All companies produce lemons, however, when its glock people make up excuses for them when its taurus people blame their quality control. like it or not people tend to stick up for their favorites because they feel like a stakeholder.
Now, having said that, there can be different types of materials used, parts, etc. for instance my glock 26 has less parts (like half) than my taurus pt111 has. Thus less things to break, which helps decrease the chances that something will go wrong. also they are different finishes and materials. Sigs are more expensive because they use different materials. all are great guns and are reliable. If you want the taurus get the taurus. dont pay for a brand name. pay for a gun that fits your hand well, is the size/caliber you want, has the features you want, etc. just know that no matter what you get you run the risk of getting a lemon and you need to test it out and put it through the ringer when you buy it. if its bad send it to the company and have them fix it.
and that guns and ammo article shows you what you can get out of the box with all of the brands.
Now, having said that, there can be different types of materials used, parts, etc. for instance my glock 26 has less parts (like half) than my taurus pt111 has. Thus less things to break, which helps decrease the chances that something will go wrong. also they are different finishes and materials. Sigs are more expensive because they use different materials. all are great guns and are reliable. If you want the taurus get the taurus. dont pay for a brand name. pay for a gun that fits your hand well, is the size/caliber you want, has the features you want, etc. just know that no matter what you get you run the risk of getting a lemon and you need to test it out and put it through the ringer when you buy it. if its bad send it to the company and have them fix it.
and that guns and ammo article shows you what you can get out of the box with all of the brands.
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Evil Monkey
New member
^^^^^
I've said this before and I'll say it again, everything in this world fits into a gradient of probability and proportionality. There is no absolute truth. It's never 0% or 100%. It's actually 10% or 90%.
That being said, with Taurus, you have a higher probability of buying a massive headache.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, everything in this world fits into a gradient of probability and proportionality. There is no absolute truth. It's never 0% or 100%. It's actually 10% or 90%.
That being said, with Taurus, you have a higher probability of buying a massive headache.
BigMikey76
New member
As some have said, Taurus has lower prices for a variety of reasons, such as lower overhead and lack of a large following in the gun buying community. Don't believe the folks who randomly bash the company as a whole. There is no company that always puts out junk, and none that always puts out high quality stuff, either. I love my Taurus, and it gets carried on a regular basis. The PT 709 has a pretty good reputation, and it will likely serve you well, if you choose it. Get what feels right to you, and don't look back.
This is not remotely a stereotype that comes to mind when I think of people that buy Rugers. They are typically seen as good pistols for budget minded buyers.
Igniting the cartridge is only one step in the function of a semiautomatic pistol. I've owned plenty of pistols that went bang, and then failed to extract, eject, or feed the next cartridge properly. Then there are also issues of safety in preventing that pistol from going bang when you don't want it to. While I would agree that modern firearms and ammo are reliable in general, there are always exceptions. Some companies seem to have a higher percentage of exceptions than others.
The largest local store near me has stopped taking in trades of certain Taurus models because of the number of returns they had (they warranty their used pistols for 30 days from purchase in terms of exchanges). To say that the days of Taurus having issues are over and have been for decades when that same company paid $39 million in a class action lawsuit that resulted in the voluntary recall of nearly 1 million pistols is a real head scratcher to me. Is your life not worth $75-$100 more?
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/08/robert-farago/taurus-recalls-nearly-1m-pistols-pt-111-millennium-pt-132-millennium-pt-138-millennium-pt-140-millennium-pt-145-millennium-pt-745-millennium-pt-609-pt-640-and-pt-247/
Please understand, I'm not meaning to pick a fight with you, but I do disagree with your premise. I own a 44 bulldog, a bunch of rugers and smiths. I can tell you without hesitation that the charter arms are not made as well. The materials and design are just simply not at the same level. I take the bulldog to the range and I literally have to tighten it up after each trip.
Like it or not, you get what you pay for.... to a point.
Do I have an issue with a pre-owned gun? Well in a way I do. Not because of the idea of the gun itself being used. The issue is with the owner. Let me explain. I have not had the best family members to look up to when it comes to guns. The people that I know are the ones who do not have proper gunsmith education and yet think they can modify XYZ gun and make it perform better than the factory engineers that made it. The gun people I know are the ones that say stuff like "knockdown power", "one shot kill", etc. The laws of science will not allow a handgun such as a 9mm or a 45acp to do such a thing. In other words the gun advice that I might get from a family member is not based of fact and most of it is based on a fallacy or just information that has little reality or truth to it. Sure they own a lot of firearms but do not understand ballistics....for example. . No, I do not have an issue with a used gun but my problem is that I do not know how well the gun was cared for.....and if Billy Bob tried to shoot a 750 grain 45acp bullet in it loaded with 13.75 grams of the wrong powder. LOL That is why I am interested in buying new.
"...why is the Taurus $75-$100..." The Taurus is made in Brazil. Costs less to make. Also has lower QC standards and less of a warrantee/customer service rep.
In the old days, my boss used to say, Smith couldn't make a pistol and Colt couldn't make a revolver. His favourite was a Charter Arms Bulldog.
However, like the cost of factory ammo the cost of a handgun makes no difference. Even less if it doesn't fit your hand.
In the old days, my boss used to say, Smith couldn't make a pistol and Colt couldn't make a revolver. His favourite was a Charter Arms Bulldog.
However, like the cost of factory ammo the cost of a handgun makes no difference. Even less if it doesn't fit your hand.
Thank you for the help. It makes since. What you are paying for besides the name and reputation is for the better quality control and for better customer service should you need it in the future. In that case I think I will spend a little more and get a handgun at has a proven track record from a company that has a quality record and can also back it up. Thanks again for the help.
OP, at one of the local gun stores that I frequent, the Ruger pocket guns move a lot faster out their door than the Taurus pocket guns. This explains at least in part why the Rugers sell for more money than the Taurus guns, because they can sell them for more. If the Ruger is sitting in the case and you ask about the Taurus, and he tells you people don't want or like the Taurus, most people will accept that & either take the Ruger if they are a serious buyer, or they keep looking.
If for some reason you cannot rent one or both of these guns at your Local Gun Store / Range to see which one you like better, you may just have to buy one before you try one. Or keep looking!
If for some reason you cannot rent one or both of these guns at your Local Gun Store / Range to see which one you like better, you may just have to buy one before you try one. Or keep looking!