Gun Newbie Needs Help Making Gun Decision

J

JustinG30

Inactive
First off i want to say thank you for any help! I have never been a gun fan and only shot BB guns as a kid. Im currently opening up a retail store and wanted to get a gun for concealment to carry on me in the store and when im leaving with cash at night.

I went to the range and i rented a Ruger LCR .38 and a Ruger SP 101 .38 It may sound bad, but i did not feel comfortable at all shooting either. The guy at the range said he was suprised with how accurate i was for never shooting, but i just didnt feel comfortable with that kind of power off the get go.

Im trying to figure out what would be a step down from those .38 specials that i shot. I was looking at maybe the Ruger LCR .22 but if anything happens to me, will that really do anything to protect myself?

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
.38s are especially potent they are on the lower spectrum of handgun power. that said. I don't believe it was so much the round as it was the size of the pistol. the smaller the gun the more felt recoil it will have. firing that same .38 out of a GP 100 with a 6" barrel will be a hell of alot different.

usually its better to get comfortable shooting on fullsized platform then stepping down to a smaller weapon. if that isn't an option .380 or .327mag could be for you.
 
I would work on finding a centerfire handgun you are, or can become comfortale with. A .22LR is excellent for developing good shooting habits with minimum recoil and expense: sight picture, trigger squeeze, re-acquiring target, safety, etc. But for defense the .38 or 9mm is a good place to start.

The more you shoot the less the blast and recoil will affect you. You might even try shooting something more powerful so you can appreciate how much milder the .38 is. As mentioned above, if your circumstance allows you to use a larger revolver than a 4" .38 is much easier on the blast. The SP101 is a good compromise between compactness and enough heft to absorb some of the shock.

Ultimately you have to accept that any handgun with enough power for good defense is going to have noticeable muzzle blast and recoil. Just relax and concentrate on everything that leads up to the blast, and when they blast happens the bullet is already on its way so who cares about the noise. Wear excellent ear protection too, such as NRR 26-30, or wear ear plugs and muffs both if needed. Concentrate on safe handling, focus on front sight (target will be a little blurred), and pull the trigger, don't jerk it in anticipation of the recoil.

Shoot a lot and the recoil becomes less of an issue. Hang in there don;t give up on it.
 
also tip i use sometimes to get use to a caliber. is i fire off a few rounds quickly just to get the feel of the gun. IE recoil flash boom etc and dont really focus on hitting the ten ring just getting them down range. then after i know what to expect I focus on shooting and controlling the gun. (i use this alot when i dust of my .44mag)
 
Get the sp101 ,then find someone to mentor you to handload for it ,you can cater loads to your needs/wants to comfortable levels .

Being a noob does have advantages , us as shooters are glad to help & bad habits are`nt started yet .

Sounds as if you have a good shop/range owner/employees that have started ya off right !!!
 
Using a light for caliber bullet will also help mitigate recoil. 110gr .38spl will have less kick than the 158gr.
 
This is a problem for a lot of new shooters. They want a small lightweight gun that they can carry and conceal all day. The problem is small lightweight guns are going to recoil much more than a heavier gun. It's sad but that's just the way it is. To solve the recoil problem they move down in caliber.

To me the 22 caliber is not one I would use for self defense. 38 spl or 9mm is as small as I would go. The 38 spl standard non +p loads are about as good as you can get for the recoil.
 
1. pick your caliber- caliber might dictate your size or format
2. pick your format- revolver or semi auto (semi autos may take up some recoil)
3. pick your size- larger less recoil, better accuracy, smaller more concealable
4. pick your brand- read reviews, stay with a major brand is usually good advice
5. cost- higher dollar cost does not always equal higher quality or higher value
6. gun dealers- shop around, sales are your friend, check internet dealers

there are no one size, one brand, one caliber, one format, fits all gun. buy what you can afford, what suits you and your needs, what feels good in your hand and wallet. then practice. what works for one person does not mean it will work for everyone.
 
A .38 special revolver is a great place to start for beginning shooters, but don't listen to the "Gun-Shop Experts" about what's the greatest, End-All, Be-All, Best gun for YOU. Because only YOU can decide what's right for YOU. The key to that is to get enough information to make a decision for yourself. And you get a lot of respect from me for getting on here to get that information.

All of these guys have it right.

.38 special and 9mm have very mild recoil when compared to .40, .45, .357 or higher calibers.

However, a .38 special round shot out of a Ruger LCR with a polymer frame and nearly NO mass to speak of,
ruger-lcr-300x199.jpg


And a .38 special round shot from a Ruger GP100 with a solid steel frame and plenty of heft to counteract Newton's Laws of Motion,
2_pistols_ruger_gp100_.357_4_ss_39236.jpg


...are going to feel about as different as driving 60mph over a speed bump on a motorcycle and driving 60mph over a speed bump in a hummer.

Here are some constants in the firearms world that are widely universal...
1. The smaller/lighter a gun is, the more it will recoil.
2. The larger the caliber or cartridge loading, the more the weapon will recoil.
3. The Smaller/lighter a gun is, the easier it is to conceal.
(The opposites of these are also true)

So you begin to see the delimma that many shooters face, "Do I carry a gun that is easy to shoot, or one that is easy to carry; because I can scarcely do both."

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Another consideration is that as you shoot more often, you will get more comfortable with your caliber of choice. The ".38 SPECIAL" that you remember knocking you around your first couple of times at the range may begin to feel quite mild as you grow more comfortable in your shooting abilities.

The .38 Special is, by and large, a great round and platform. It's affordable to shoot, and there is a HUGE used market on .38 special revolvers (police trade ins, duty guns, etc...) that also offers a vast array of options for size, barrel length, capacity, sighting systems, weight, grip shape, etc... All shooters tend to have a certain respect for the .38 special.
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Finally, as a general rule, I advise everyone who asks me AGAINST ever using a .22lr caliber weapon as a defensive tool for anything other than a last resort. The biggest reason for that is the ammunition that it fires. 22lr ammunition is what is referred to as a "Rim-Fire" cartridge. They do not use the more reliable Center-Fire primer design as more reliable cartridges and as a result, are plagued by unreliability. Sometimes the rounds just don't go off. Anyone who shoots enough .22lr will agree with me. Besides the unreliability of the round, the round itself offers very little punch on the receiving end. They do have the power to damage tissue and kill, but that often happens many minutes or hours after the shooting. Larger calibers offer the power to STOP the offender instead of just most likely wounding him while he continues to perpetrate the crime.

Once again, you gain a lot of respect points for coming here for information and with an open mind.

~LT
 
Hey Justin,

Everyone has been a noob at one point or another, even Rambo had to learn to shoot. Shooters are usually more than happy to take a few minutes to teach about guns and ammo.

That being said, you should consider the main purpose for your weapon. Since you work in close quarters, and will need a self defense weapon a 22 LR pistol may prove to be too weak to help. Beretta makes a 22 LR called the Bobcat. That pistol has a big grip on it and may prove to be a comfortable gun to shoot and to carry. I would recommend something in .380. A Bersa Thunder Carry Conceal Model looks like a Walther clone (James Bond gun), it's comfortable, inexpensive, and has ample self defense firepower when loaded with defense ammo like Hornady Critical Defense.

Go to a local store and ask to handle as many guns as you can. Put each pistol to your hip, and see how it profiles on you. A defense gun will not do you any good if you don't wear it because it's too bulky or heavy. Also, make sure you are compliant with your laws, some places do not allow carry, or loaded conceal off person, without special permits.

And lastly (since you are a new shooter), look around for an instructor and take an hour or two of training. Proper draw technique, failure to fire practice, stance, all the neat stuff. You'll be surprised at how much real shooting does not resemble what you see in the movies.

One last thing, never ask two or more shooters at a time what the best caliber is. Those debates take weeks to resolve.
 
I appreciate all the incite. I think my biggest problem with both the .38 i shot was because the handle was small and i have bigger hands, i didnt feel like i had a solid grip on it. But i need it to be concealed, so i guess its a catch 22.

I have been reading a lot that a .22lr is not good at all for defense purposes. Do they make a gun that can accept bigger ammo, but allows the .22 ammo also to learn and get accurate with?

Is their anything in between a .22 and a .38 when it comes to revolvers?

Thanks again! Great forum by the way!
 
You might want to look into a S&W J-frame for the 38 spl. They make what they call an Airweight which weighs 15 oz. About the same as the Ruger LCR.

The good thing about the S&W J- frames is that the grips are so easy to change up. I use a S&W 638 with Crimson Trace lasers when I use the gun for pocket carry. When I want to go to range for a long practice session I change the grips to a set of Pachmayr Compac rubber grips which really helps with soaking up the recoil. When I go to carry I change back to the CT lasers.

I'm not saying Ruger is a bad gun, it's just they're many more J-frames out there and many more types of grips and other accessories. I think you can find about any type of grip you want.
 
Are you dead set on a revolver? I just purchased my first firearm ever....

Before I looked at a single gun, I called a firearms instructor, told him what I was doing and asked for his advise. One of the first things he said was that gun stores love to sell first-timers small, light revolvers that feel good in the hand but aren't all that pleasant to shoot. Sure enough. I went to two stores, told them I was shopping for my first handgun and they immediately led me (and my wife) to the small revolvers. The SP101 was one of them. It did feel really great in the hand. My wife especially liked the way it fit her hand.

In the end, we went with a 9mm semi-auto and we both love the hell out of it. We took a handgun course and shot 250 rounds through the gun on our first outing. My wife (who had never shot a gun in her life and was ant-gun all her life), thoroughly enjoyed shooting it. She probably shot 175-200 of the total rounds fired that day and was wishing we had more ammo.

Now, this is not to say revolvers aren't great. I'm just sharing my experience as I was in your exact place almost a month ago to the day. I highly recommend finding a good firearms instructor and asking for some guidance. It worked out very well for us. It made the entire process a pleasure and even managed to make my wife enthusiastic about the handgun.
 
My biggest reason for a revolver is i always hear its just more low maintenance and easier to point and shoot. I only plan on using it maybe 1-2 times a month at the range, and hope i never have to use it in my store or walking to my car. I was just leaning the revolver route since from what i heard and read its basically pull, point and shoot. Nothing else to it. Plus if being attacked and their is a misfire, pull the trigger again.
 
Not sure what .38 ammo you were shooting, but it obviously had to strong on of recoil, and the SP101 is not a light gun, nor is it heavy to me at 25oz.

One ammo you could try in that SP101 are Wadcutter's, although it a low recoil target round, they penetrate a human pretty deep and is known to be a pretty "Good" SD round.

You can get bigger grips too.
 
I want to say it was like 130 grain. Is their a big difference in the recoil and power of a 38 special and a 22 magnum out of a revolver?
 
Justin,

In the revolver world, there isn't much between a .22lr and a .38 special that isn't a real "Niche Market". Honestly, from the symptoms you described, it sounds like you just needed a bigger/heavier gun. We aren't talking a "Dirty Harry" Revolver, just one with a bit more weight and grip size to get your hands onto.

My suggestions would be along the lines of:
Smith and Wesson Model 60
This is a "J-Frame" or "Small Frame" .357 magnum revolver. In nearly all .357 magnum revolvers, you can load and shoot .38 special rounds interchangeably. This is a solid steel framed revolver that you can easily find with a large enough grip to fit even large hands.
They can be found in 2" barrel models and 3" barrel models.
model60large.jpg

162430_01_md.jpg


And people have been concealing J-frames for decades on belts, in holsters, in pockets, etc... That's really the selling point of the frame design.

If you have an aversion to excessive recoil, I'd avoid the Air-Weight J-frames for obvious reasons; instead opting for the steel-framed alternatives.

Other Small models you might want to consider:
S&W Model 36 (.38 special J-frame)
S&W Model 38 (.38 special J-frame/ Ugly but effective)

Also, if you think you'd like a larger size for comfort and ease of recoil, the K-frame (or medium frame) size revovlers out there are still very concealable with the right holster/garment combination.
pythonon1.JPG


Some K-Frames (and equivalents) to consider (Google)-
S&W Model 10
S&W Model 64
S&W Model 13
S&W Model 19
S&W Model 66
S&W Model 67
Ruger Security Six
Ruger Speed Six

Taurus also makes a lot of revolvers with comparable features for lower cost. I am largely unfamiliar with these model numbers. I have had some bad experience with Taurus, but hold no ill regard toward them. Several of my aquaintances have nothing but nice things to say about them.
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A few words on "Concealability". What someone can conceal effectively is truly different for every person. Some people feel uncomfortable concealing a 3.5" folding blade, while others seem to be able to conceal every attachment they could purchase to turn their revolver into an AA Cannon. "Think OJ Simpson in Naked Gun 2"
500px-NG2_31.jpg


Personally, I am 5'9" tall at about 160lbs on a good day. I dress regularly business casual/Actual casual in jeans/slacks and a buttoned shirt/polo/t-shirt. Daily, I conceal a 4" Smith and Wesson M&P9, fully loaded with 17+1 rounds of 9mm, an extra magazine of 17 rounds, and a Ka-Bar TDI Karambit blade. This isn't all I CARRY, but it's what concealed where no one can see. If you're committed to it, you can conceal darn near anything.

3711163015_59289668e2_z.jpg

tdi02.jpg


~LT
 
As someone earlier mentioned you might want to look at a gun chambered in .327 Magnum. Ruger (I think), Smith and Wesson and Taurus (there are probably others) make guns chambered in that caliber. You can shoot .32 Longs out of it for low powered practice and the .327s pack a nice punch, but don't recoil to bad.
 
For this purpose, I would advise against the .327 Federal magnum. There aren't that many models of revolver chambered for it currently, all guns chambered for it are going to be newer and more expensive while the manufacturers are still to cater to a growing niche market, ammunition will be hard to find and nearly twice as expensive, and it's going to be harder, more expensive, and a much more tedious process trying to learn to shoot one's First Firearm Ever while having to consider and compensate for all of these variables.

Just my opinion.

~LT
 
My 82 YO with Arthritis land lady loves my .357 6 shot K-frame type, it's loaded with .38 Wadcutters, the last shot .357mag power'ball.

That's her home defense over her Baby Browning, please.:rolleyes:
 
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