Gun makers starting to cave

Little-e

New member
"NEW YORK, July 21 (Reuters) - In a move that would represent a major break in the solidarity of the gun industry, two major gun makers are negotiating with the New York State Attorney General over a lawsuit he plans to file against gun manufacturers, Wednesday's New York Times reports.

The negotiations center on whether the gun makers will agree to several far-reaching concessions, including better supervision of how their guns are marketed and sold, the paper said, quoting unnamed people involved in the discussions.

Attorney General Eliot L. Spitzer, has repeatedly accused the gun industry of irresponsible marketing that has allowed firearms to fall into the hands of criminals. If the gun makers agree to concessions, Spitzer would agree to exclude the companies from the lawsuit, participants in the talks said.

The Times said the talks involved Colt's Manufacturing of Hartford, Connecticut, one of the country's oldest and best-known gun makers, and a second company that was not identified.

New York would be the first state to sue gun manufacturers, but 23 cities and counties around the nation have already done so, the Times said.

If either gun company agrees to the demands, it would be the first time a gun maker had made a concession to gun-control proposals in response to the lawsuits, the paper added.

Richard Esposito, a consultant to Colt's, was quoted as saying, ``We are not opposed to any such talks,'' but added that Colt's did not want to discuss the terms in public.

The Times said people close to Spitzer say he would prefer to avoid protracted and costly litigation with the gun industry in favor of a quick settlement that would keep guns out of the hands of criminals."


I thought the 20,000 laws we already had were designed to keep guns away from criminals. This is a bad road to go down. Once started on that path, it'll be impossible to come back.
 
If the gun makers agree to concessions, Spitzer would agree to exclude the companies from the lawsuit, participants in the talks said.

Translation: If only you don't take my guns, I'll help you take *their* guns.

Sliwa, if you're there, listen up: We're fighting a WAR here, and you're defecting to the enemy. Does the name Benedict Arnold mean anything to you?

Cowards. Traitors. Treasonous Rat Bastards.


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Ignorance is takin' over,
We gotta take the power back.
--Rage Against The Machine
 
Could have no said it better Conneach.

For the life of me, I can't figure out what possible good can come out of this for the manufactures. They may save $ in the short term, but for the long haul, they're putting themselves out of business. Now would be a bad time to invest in a gun company.
 
From what I read, the gun companies were considering agreeing to "better supervision of how the guns were marketed and sold". That doesn't sound like an evil concession.. or much of a concession at all really.
Let the Anti's claim victory, but don't get all wrapped up in their hype....
 
IMO some gunmakers never seem to learn that appeasement means losing in the long run. The more they concede to the anti-gunners, the more the anti-gunners will demand, until the gunmakers (and the rest of us) are left with nothing.

Besides, I personally don't understand what the manufacturers could possibly have to concede, unless they somehow do play a role in getting guns into the wrong hands.

In sum, it makes no sense to me.
 
to see the result of appeasement see the late '30 in Czechoslovakia and this guy named hitler. appeasement never works

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It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?
 
Colt is not alone.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - Three major gun makers are in negotiations with New York state's attorney general to avoid being named in a lawsuit he plans to file, a source close to the talks said today.

The talks involve Colt's Manufacturing of Hartford, Conn., Smith & Wesson Corp. of Springfield, Mass., and Sturm, Ruger & Co. of Southport, Conn., the source said, speaking on condition of anonymity.[/quote]

More details at:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ap/ap_us/story.html?s=v/ap/19990721/us/gun_suits_2.html

Dave
 
Ruger doesn't surprise me, but S&W?!

Screw it. I'll drive up to Wyoming and pick me up a Freedom Arms .475 Linebaugh for my carry piece.

EDIT: Or maybe not. FA says they're backordered by several months, and S&W's spokesthing says he doesn't know anything about negotiations.
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Ignorance is takin' over,
We gotta take the power back.
--Rage Against The Machine

[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited July 21, 1999).]
 
S&W doesn't surprise me at all. They are a very small part of a large conglomerate based in London named Tomkins p.l.c.

A partial list of their holdings follow:
Cobra
Dexter Axle
Gates - Floormaster
Gates
Guest & Chrimes
Hayters
Lasco Bathware
Lasco Fittings
Lau
Mayfran
Murray
Overseal
Philips Products
Rank Hovis
Red Wing
R F Brookes
RHM Technology
Rombout
Ruskin
Schrader-Bridgeport
Shipham & Co. Ltd
Smith & Wesson
Sofrapain
Air Systems Components
Totectors
Gates - Tredaire
Twiflex

That's everything from lawnmowers to fan belts to baking equipment to guns. Little loss to them in the long run.

Dave
 
Hey guys, you want to know how any of the gun manufacturers could consider giving in, when it only speeds the death of their industry? Answer: The government ALSO buys guns, (In fact, it buys a lot of them!) so the firearms industry will continue to exist even under the worst case scenario. At least the parts of it which suck up to the gun control movement will continue to exist! So caving makes perfect sense, if they think we're going to lose. Especially since the management of many of these companies don't give a hoot about the Second amendment, and regard manufacturing guns as just another business, like manufacturing toasters. I'd expect the small companies, started and run by people who love firearms, to stand steady, while the big companies with professional management will cave almost to the man.
 
Well, hell, I guess it's time to buy some ammo, eh? I seem to have a respectable supply of guns (not like a lot of you, but enough for me) but other than the cases for the AR and the .308 I don't have much in the way of ammo for .40, .41, .380, .38, etc. I see an expensive weekend coming...

IOW, hey, guys, ammo is next. "Those evil guns would be just so much scrap if it weren't for your reckless disregard for our CHILDREN demonstrated by your continued sale of high explosives in little packages with bullets on the front. Now, you must PAY. Pay me, in fact, hundreds would be nice..."

Get supplied.
 
Let's see: Colt's been run by a lickspittle for the last several years, plus they really want gov't contracts; S&W is run as a business venture, not by dedicated gun enthustiasts anymore; and Ruger, well let's just say old Bill has disappointed me for the last time.

Marketing? Marketing?! WTF? So now we're to believe that under the Brady Act the government is powerless to stop evildoers from getting guns because of the slick marketing the gun industry uses? Yeah, that evil cartoon mascot Joe Panther you see on all those billboards really drives kids to buy guns. And, yes please, let's discuss sales. We all know what hoops you must leap through in order to purchase a new firearm, and the huge paper trail it leaves through gov't territory, so, pray tell, what in the heck are the gun manufacturers supposed to do about it?

All we need now is for the NRA to back this.


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"The sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of any of their number is self-protection."
John Stuart Mill
 
Remember when Colt and Ruger volentarily began making "assault rifle" concessions in the late '80's and early '90's.

You can't trust the legacy of Sam Colt?

Bill Ruger seems to have lost his grip, too.

Fact is, if I buy a Colt or a Ruger, now, it's 2nd hand, only. I won't give my money to them. They're not fighting for the long run, but rather for the instant buck. Don't sell your kids' birthright for a gee-whiz new toy.

My best guns were designed 50+ years ago.

L.P.



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Do SOMETHING!
 
Some potentially good news:

<a href="http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ts/story.html?s=v/nm/19990726/ts/guns_suit_1.html">Story</a>

Gun Firms Balk At New York Regulation Deal

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Gun-industry representatives have backed away from a program of heightened regulation proposed by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer as an alternative to the state's joining the legal assault on the industry, the Wall Street Journal reported Monday.

A state official close to Spitzer said Friday that the industry's reaction made it very likely New York would become the first state to add its name to the 23 municipalities
around the country that have sued gun companies to recoup the public costs of firearm violence, according to the paper.

"The discussions have broken down," the official said. "We were stunned." The official added that a suit could be filed within a matter of weeks, the Journal said.

Spitzer, however, left open the possibility that negotiations might be revived.

"To the extent the industry is willing to make meaningful changes" in the design and marketing of guns, "we will continue to seek a nonlitigation solution," he said
Sunday.

The Journal said a person familiar with the gun industry's position confirmed that the industry had balked because it viewed Spitzer's proposal as reflecting "a complete
lack of understanding of how the industry works."

This person predicted that the industry would issue a formal written response to the New York proposal within the next few weeks, the paper said.

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A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.
 
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