Gun Forums and Prosecution......?

B

(BH)

New member
Ok, so this has been on my mind for some time now and seeing it mentioned in passing by another TFL member inspired me to start a thread.

I feel like this is a very important topic for internet gun forum members. I did a couple of searches and they didn't yield too much info on the subject.

Here's my question:

If for some terrible reason, an incident transpires where you have to use a firearm for self defense, could a prosecutor use the fact that you are a member of an online forum, and the contents of said forum against you?

It just seems like if you find yourself in that terrible situation, it would be easy for the prosecution to paint a nice picture about how you are some murderous gun fiend who gets online and talks incessantly about his tools of death.

What if you are one the people who have little catchphrases in your signature saying some kind of shoot first/ask questions later kind of line? I didn't want to post anyone's in specific, but if you browse for a few you will some "prosecution treats". I'm really curious if they would use something like this in court.

Any thoughts?
 
Yes, the contents of this forum (or any forum) and other information on your computer can be used as evidence against you in a prosecution if they are otherwise admissible under the Rules of Evidence.

I think a good defense attorney could probably make admissibility a hotly contested issue, but I bet you could spend a lot of money arguing about it.

If you are really interested in the topic, here is a good start on it:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/isfi/2004/00000006/00000002/05269266?crawler=true
 
Bart is right on the money and any good prosecutor will dig up stuff that might amaze you. Any and all training and transactions will be presented in his light. For instance,; "Have you ever killed an animal? not "are you a hunter. Might also be aware of posts that ask you what you own, what you shoot and pictures.

"I'm not paranoid, I'm just private and protective."


Be Safe !!!
 
Anything you write in forums can be introduced, under certain conditions. It is essential that you have a competent lawyer that thoroughly understands the rules of evidence.

For example, the prosecution is allowed to introduce evidence of your violent character to rebut your evidence that you are a pacifist. (Rule 404 in most states). Similarly if you attack the character of the person you were forced to shoot. I have seen plenty of defense attorneys inadvertently "open the door" for the prosecution to introduce evidence of character and past crimes. Another thing your posts might be relevant for is evidence of motive, intent, or plan, if for example you write "I would shoot even after the threat stopped, as I would not want to leave the attacker alive to testify against me."
 
How are they going to prove it was actually you that posted the statements?

Guess who typed up the above sentence....
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They may or may not be able to prove it for any given singular statement but they most certainly can trace the posts to your computer and use your whereabouts and testimony from others to show that it could have been no one else at the computer at the time that at least some of the statements were made.
 
"I would shoot even after the threat stopped, as I would not want to leave the attacker alive to testify against me."
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melchloboo,
I see that all the time on here. It is exactly what I'm talking about.

Much like everyone else on here, I keep guns for HD, but that doesn't mean I feel the need to share the ins and outs of my personal morality regarding the subject with other forum members.

Every time I see stuff like the above quote it makes me think that if something ever happened and they used the quote as evidence, that would just look really bad to a jury. I could see that tipping the old scales out of the defendants favor real quick.
 
They may or may not be able to prove it for any given singular statement but they most certainly can trace the posts to your computer and use your whereabouts and testimony from others to show that it could have been no one else at the computer at the time that at least some of the statements were made.
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I was upstairs getting a drink while my wife posted that statement. Innocent until proven guilty. I have my alibi. The defense rests...
 
I would guess it depends on whether you use a private attorney or a public defender. A lot of public defenders are so over-worked they do not have the time to really run a great defense.

But a lot of it, I believe, would depend on the types of post you leave. If you offer helpful advice and such, I think the prosecution would have a little harder time trying to make something of it.
If you offer the "Kill them all and let God sort them out" sort of advice, then it would be a lot easier for the prosecution (again, depending on your attorney).
Either way, I guess if anyone was really concerned, they could be careful what they post. I think for most people, myself included, I never really thought about, nor do I worry about it now.
 
On the other hand, a member's posts could be exculpatory if the prosecution is asserting he or she is a bloodthirsty vigilante, but the member's posts have demonstrated character entirely to the contrary, and an understanding of the ethical and principles of legal self defense that is beyond reproach.
 
On the other hand, a member's posts could be exculpatory if the prosecution is asserting he or she is a bloodthirsty vigilante, but the member's posts have demonstrated character entirely to the contrary, and an understanding of the ethical and principles of legal self defense that is beyond reproach.
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Precisely. Something to keep in mind with each and every post we make.... except, now this post could make it look like all my other posts were just made to try and prove that I'm not bloodthirsty and now this post shows that I was aware of that possibility, but, now, having stated such, either end of the spectrum could be possible.... crap....:D;)
 
Yeah, but do remember, if they find one screwball thing you wrote at one point, you DO have the option of introducing a ton of sane stuff.

Thinking back on, gawd, I dunno how many posts here and other forums, there's maybe a few that might look a bit loony - out of somewhere around 20,000(!). More if you include mailing lists. So if they find two or three that on their own look screwball, OK, in terms of a "sanity check roll" that's not half bad :).
 
Good topic BH. I guess you just have to be careful not to post anything that makes you seem like some gun toting maniac. Think before you post is definitely a good idea. :)
 
My rule of thumb is not post anything I would be afraid for my mother, grandmother or pastor to see. That being said, sometime they worry about me, sometimes they worry a lot.
 
Beyond a prosecutor trying to trace back to the computer to determine who made the posts, etc... How would a prosecutor even know you posted to a forum in the first place?

For instance, If I am involved in a self-defense shooting in my home and prosecutors decide to take me to court, how would they ever know that I am a member of this forum?
 
If for some terrible reason, an incident transpires where you have to use a firearm for self defense, could a prosecutor use the fact that you are a member of an online forum, and the contents of said forum against you?
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Yes, and yes.

Don't ever post anything online anonymously that you would not be willing to post under your own name on the front page of the daily paper -- or have your mother read.

See http://www.aware.org/arttruelaw/lifeagainstme.shtml for more about the types of things that can or cannot be admitted into evidence at trial.

Beyond a prosecutor trying to trace back to the computer to determine who made the posts, etc... How would a prosecutor even know you posted to a forum in the first place?
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It is increasingly common for courts to issue warrants for the contents of hard drives. If they've got your hard drive, they know where you post and under what names.

pax
 
It is increasingly common for courts to issue warrants for the contents of hard drives. If they've got your hard drive, they know where you post and under what names.
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Not for that type of crime. A warrant is issued for a search where evidence may be reasonably found. Magistrates will issue warrants for computers for crimes like hacking, online kiddie pics, etc. A self-defense shooting gone wrong has no connection to a computer. Any warrant issued for a computer in a self-defense gone wrong situation that turns up this sort of evidence like forum postings, would almost certainly be reversible error on appeal.
 
Magistrates will issue warrants for computers for crimes like hacking, online kiddie pics, etc.
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Prosecutors and investigators can and have gotten subpoenas for computers, memoranda, files, email server records, telephone records, cell phone records including locational data, GPS data from cars, etc. for all kinds of suspected crimes--conspiracy, plans to commit robbery or murder, attempts to defraud, bribery, federal false claims and false statements, espionage, blackmail, jury tampering---to mention just a few.

A self-defense shooting gone wrong has no connection to a computer. Any warrant issued for a computer in a self-defense gone wrong situation that turns up this sort of evidence like forum postings, would almost certainly be reversible error on appeal.
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On what basis? The defendant will have necessarily admitted the use of deadly force and must provide evidence to support a claim that the act was justified. The existence of evidence of any kind pertaining to the credibility of the defendant's statements to invetigators or to a grand jury, and/or of his testimony in court, would be completely relevant, as would any evidence pertaining to the defendant's state of mind.

Forum postings could easily be used to try to establish state of mind or to show contradictions in statements or testimony.
 
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