Gun-Control Movement Split by Ambition to Ban Handguns

Oatka

New member
Glad to see we are not the only ones that are fragmented. Hopefully, the gun-banners will spook the public.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38fc6b194b67.htm#1

Gun-Control Movement Split by Ambition to Ban Handguns

LA Times article.

WASHINGTON--One year after the Columbine (oh, that word again - Oatka) High School shooting, newly energized gun-control forces are grappling with a potentially critical split within their ranks over a key strategic decision: How far can they hope to go in reining in guns?

For all the recent talk of "smart" guns, trigger locks and other innovations in weapons safety, an increasingly vocal minority in the gun-control community is arguing that nothing short of a ban on handguns will stem gun violence. They maintain that the current array of half-step advances in gun-safety technology could actually fuel violence.

The gun-control movement has achieved only sporadic legislative victories in the last year. Yet the mere mention of a much more ambitious agenda-a handgun ban-has expanded the national debate and generated both enthusiasm and division within a gun-control community that is enjoying unprecedented visibility and financial backing in the year since Columbine.

"Historically, if you talked about banning handguns, it was political suicide. I don't think that's true anymore," said Eric Gorovitz, policy coordinator in San Francisco for the Bell Campaign, a new victim's rights group that has taken no position on a handgun ban.

"There's a split in the gun-control movement about it," Gorovitz; said. "There's some resistance to even talking about bans because it's been taboo for so long. But [backers] sense that there's momentum now that wasn't there even a couple of years ago, and they want to take advantage of that."

One leading advocate of a handgun ban, the Washington-based Violence Policy Center, warns that technology such as "smart" weapons, whose development has been pushed by President Clinton, will increase gun sales.

They cite a survey by the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, which found that among people unlikely to buy a standard gun, one-third tpuld consider purchasing a "smart" weapon-one, that can only be fired by its authorized user. Gun maker Colt estimates that "smart" guns could add 60 million new firearms owners.

"After the horror of Columbine, for gun-control advocates from the White House on down to say [safety reforms such as trigger locks and smart guns] would have any real effect is laughable," said Josh Sugarmann, head of the Violence Policy Center. "Not only will smart guns have little effect on decreasing gun deaths and injury, we think it will actually increase gun deaths. It will put more guns on the street."

Moreover, Sugarmann said his research shows that the "smart" gun initiative is misguided because it would do nothing to prevent the large numbers of gun deaths caused by people firing their own weapons-often spouses in domestic disputes, for instance, or suicides.

Talk of Bans Seen as Folly by Some

The National Rifle Assn. contends that the new push for a handgun ban reflects a dangerous affront to the 2nd Amendment and the hidden agenda of the gun-control movement.

Even some leaders in the gun-control community say that advocating a handgun ban is political folly. Congress has been deadlocked for more than eight months over much more modest gun-control measures, such as expanding background checks at gun shows and requiring trigger locks on new handguns. And, although polls consistently show a majority of Americans back tougher gun laws, only about A third want an outright ban on handguns.

Some also dispute the notion that smart or personalized guns will lead to increased firearms sales and more deaths. "Sure, some people will bring a gun into the home who wouldn't have," said Jon S. Vernick, associate director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research. "But we believe that, on balance, if you have to have a gun in your home, a personalized gun is the safer alternative."

But advocates of a ban say activists need to seize the momentum generated by Columbine and other shootings, including the attack on a Los Angeles Jewish day care center last August.

Columbine was a defining moment in the gun debate, a number of experts said.

The tragedy last April 20 in Colorado, which claimed the lives of 12 students, a teacher and the two teenage gunmen, has permeated the public consciousness well beyond the political arena. An Internet company pulled a television ad that showed a computer blasted by gunfire. And Sears stopped selling "the villain," a gun-toting action figure dressed in a black trench coat.

Since the shooting, gun violence has gained unrivaled attention, from the presidential candidates down to the mayors of towns such as Waterloo, Iowa, whose Republican mayor recently traveled to Washington to support a Clinton administration plan to steer police gun purchases to "responsible" gun makers.

But Sugarmann decries what he called the "cautionary movement" in the gun-control community.

More moderate activists, he said, "are really afraid to face some of the hard truths" about what needs to be done. And the unwillingness among some moderates to debate a handgun ban "has hurt the movement in that, all too often, many in the gun-control movement are willing to trade the perception of short-term political success for long-term public policy goals."

A few cities, most notably Washington and Chicago, already have bans or severe restrictions on private ownership of handguns, and the Maryland attorney general embraced the idea of a "farewell to arms" last October. Other groups have begun talking up the idea in recent months as well, but the gun-control movement's most visible player, Handgun Control Inc., doesn't think a ban is necessary.

Joe Sudbay, the group's political director, downplayed any divisions over the handgun-ban issue. "It's a growing movement and there's going to be debate within the movement." The important thing is, he said, that gun-control advocates, whatever their differences, work together to elect lawmakers who are in favor of gun control.

While the gun-control movement is still well behind the gun lobby in political and financial muscle, observers said that it is becoming an influential force.

Gun-control supporters in the last year have generated more money than ever before for research, violence prevention and advocacy, including tens of millions in grants from philanthropic groups such as George Soros' Open Society Institute, the San Francisco-based Richard and Rhoda Goldman Fund and the Chicago-based Joyce Foundation.

At Handgun Control Inc., membership has surged nearly 20% in the last year to about 475,000, and the "Million Mom March" for gun control, set for next month in Washington, is expected to draw more attention to the issue.

"What changed after Columbine was that people who long believed we should do something started to speak out," said Gorovitz of the Bell Campaign.

But with the NRA mobilizing a strong counterattack in recent months--its membership has soared to a record 3.5 million--the legislative results have been mixed.

"There has been more talk than action," said Kelly Anders of the National Conference of State Legislatures. "You can overhear people talking about gun control just about everywhere, on elevators, in the Legislature, on television. But when it comes to actual laws that are passed as a result of these concerns, they are minuscule."

States Approve Few Firearms-Related Bills

Anders estimated that about 1,100 firearms-related bills were introduced in statehouses last year. Fewer than 150 passed and most of those dealt with administrative issues such as whether a sheriff could keep his gun when he retires.

There have been key victories for gun-control advocates in states, including California and Maryland. Massachusetts this month began regulating guns as consumer products, a move with far-reaching implications.

But a new study released lost week by the pro-gun control Open Society Institute found a "striking . . . lack of uniformity" in state firearms laws.

The study concluded that 41 states "fall below minimum standards for public safety, since they lack basic gun laws such as licensing and registration."

Even in California, where gun-control advocates pride themselves on the state's get-tough gun laws banning assault weapons and limiting handgun purchases to one a month, the study found that the state lacks basic. licensing -and registration of rifles and handguns.

The state ranked third in the study's analysis, well behind Massachusetts and Hawaii. "There are some crucial measures missing," said study director Rebecca Peters.

"It's an indictment of the rest of the country that California is considered to have strict gun laws," Gorovitz said, "because everyone else is so weak."



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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
Thanks for posting this good news, Oatka.

Now to put a wedge in this split and hammer on it.

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Slowpoke Rodrigo...he pack a gon...

Vote for the Neal Knox 13
 
This IS good news, 'cause all I ever hear is "look, don't be paranoid--no one is talking about banning guns."

My response is that the KKK doesn't talk about lynchings anymore either--do ya trust 'em?
 
I think that the interesting parts of this article are:

1.) There is a split in the gun control movement concerning supporting outright gun bans. Only 1/3 of Americans support such a ban. - we ought to do what we can to help with this split.

2.) Plans to steer police purchases to "responsible" gun makers - Now many LEO's can see their folly in lying down with HCI. All it gets them is substandard weapons. Meanwhile, everyone else will have high quality guns.

3.) HCI has 475,000 members - I didn't know that they had that many. Must be giving away free memberships. Perhaps the NRA should have a low cost associate membership and sign up an additional 10,000,000 people. Free with the purchase of a gun - paid for by the gun makers.
 
And what exactly do handguns have to do with Columbine? What do handguns have to do with most any school shooting???

People are so hysterical about all of this that they have totally lost sight of their goal and coherence of corelations.

This cracked me up:

""Historically, if you talked about banning handguns, it was political suicide. I don't think that's true anymore," said Eric Gorovitz, policy coordinator in San Francisco for the Bell Campaign, a new victim's rights group that has taken no position on a handgun ban."

Um...taking a position of banning handguns is no longer political suicide, but they refuse to take a position on the idea. Anyone else see the irony?


"They cite a survey by the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, which found that among people unlikely to buy a standard gun, one-third tpuld consider purchasing a "smart" weapon-one, that can only be fired by its authorized user. Gun maker Colt estimates that "smart" guns could add 60 million new firearms owners."

Not only would more people buy "smart" guns (because their controlling wives would let them, due to their "reduced danger"), but more people would NEED to buy "smart" guns. If the gun only works for one person, or has a combination etc that is your personal one, you are going to need a difference gun for each person. No longer sharing guns, you need one for every person in the house.
These anti-gunners cannot win no matter what they do. Every idiotic thing they come up with ends up shooting themselves in the foot.


""After the horror of Columbine, for gun-control advocates from the White House on down to say [safety reforms such as trigger locks and smart guns] would have any real effect is laughable," said Josh Sugarmann, head of the Violence Policy Center"

Gee, you mean some anti-self-defense bigots actually realize that these laws are laughable?


"A few cities, most notably Washington and Chicago, already have bans or severe restrictions on private ownership of handgun"

Gee, and that has helped their crime rate SO much. Let's follow their example!


"but the gun-control movement's most visible player, Handgun Control Inc., doesn't think a ban is necessary."

These guys are smart. They KNOW that endorsing a ban (which is their true agenda) would be a political downfall.
Besides, they are getting so much done with small encroachments....why should they switch tactics?


In the end all this does is expose the anti-gun bigots for what they are.
We have always told the nation that what they really want is an outright ban, and no one believed us. Now, they are going public with it, and they are going to lose a LOT of support from the fence sitters.


Mr. Pub
"Perhaps the NRA should have a low cost associate membership and sign up an additional 10,000,000 people. Free with the purchase of a gun - paid for by the gun makers."

I could not agree more! I can't for te life of me understand why more gun shops etc are not supporting NRA, GOA etc. How about a free membership with a gun purchase? Or at least some free literature! Geez, these people that are making their living selling guns are not even active enough to help the people that are keeping them in business. I like the way Dillon Prescision does it....every time you buy something from them they ask you if you want to round up to the next dollar in support of the NRA.

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"Our cause has been aided by the deaths of all these children in all these schools, and in other settings. And I think we should pay tribute to them." - President Bill Clinton, dancing in the blood of children and pushing his irrelevant gun control laws, April 12, 2000, Scripps Howard News Service Interview
 
That last article was great! thanks for the link!
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28547.htm

WILLIAM Schneider couldn't believe his eyes. The CNN commentator and fellow at the American Enterprise Institute felt there must be something wrong with a recent CNN poll. It showed Americans are evenly divided on whether George W. Bush, who doesn't talk much about guns, or Al Gore, who has made gun control a theme of his presidential campaign, handles the "gun issue" better. Schneider requested the question be asked again. It was - with the same result.

The gun issue isn't supposed to be playing this way in 2000. Democrats, liberals, the press, most of the Washington political community, and even a good number of Republicans thought the politics of the issue had been transformed, post-Columbine. No longer would the intensity be on the side of the National Rifle Association and gun owners.

Now, it would be with middle-class voters, suburbanites, soccer moms, and others who favor sweeping gun control, including registration of all handguns. They would force queasy Republicans to swallow gun control or else lose in this fall's election.

Quite the opposite has happened. The intensity has shifted - strengthening the foes of gun control. NRA membership is soaring and may reach 4 million by year's end. Most Republicans feel politically secure on the gun issue, and President Clinton has jettisoned the not-so-popular phrase "gun control" in favor of "gun safety." Democrats made gun control the overriding issue last fall in the Virginia and New Jersey legislative races. The result was GOP capture of both houses of the Virginia legislature for the first time ever and easy Republican retention of the New Jersey statehouse.

In poll after poll, public support for gun control has dipped. More important, public belief that more gun restrictions are the answer to gun violence, especially among youths, has faded.

A new twist to the debate has been crucial in undermining the drive for gun control. This is the argument, stridently voiced by NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre, that existing gun laws should be enforced before any new ones are enacted. "Finally, their side has an argument the public is receptive to," says Karlyn Bowman, who monitors polls for AEI.

Polls bear this out. A survey in April by ABC News/Washington Post asked whether "passing stricter gun control laws" or "stricter enforcement of existing laws" is the best way to curb gun violence. Enforcement was preferred by 53 percent to 33 percent. In a survey for YRock, the Young Republican Web site, GOP pollster Frank Luntz asked for reaction to this statement: "Passing gun laws is what keeps politicians' careers alive. Enforcing gun laws is what keeps the rest of us alive." Sixty percent agreed, 34 percent didn't.

By championing enforcement, Republicans have deftly adjusted to a change in the gun debate that Democrats were certain would help their side. In this regard, they first seized on Project Exile, a program in Richmond, Virginia, in which criminals who use guns are prosecuted in federal court, where trials are swifter and sentences harsher.

The Clinton administration privately opposed expansion of Project Exile until last year, when a Senate hearing on it was scheduled. The Saturday before, the president reversed the policy and used his radio address to praise the program.

The public has dramatically lost faith in gun control as a solution to violence in America, notably to gun violence in schools. What would have the greatest impact in reducing school violence? In the Luntz poll, only 10 percent said gun control; 77 percent said teaching about right and wrong. Given other choices, 84 percent said parental involvement was the answer; 14 percent answered gun control.

One person who hasn't been surprised by voters' attitudes about guns is Karl Rove, George W. Bush's chief strategist. Bush, of course, echoes the GOP line about first enforcing, and then tinkering with, existing gun laws. Rove characterizes the presidential race as between "one guy who says the answer is more gun control" and "the other guy who says we've got laws on the books people are breaking ... and while we need a few improvements, we need to send a message that when you use a gun, you go to jail." The second guy wins 60 percent to 20 percent, according to Rove. He exaggerates, but he and Bush understand that the new politics of gun control are a lot like the old.
 
A GREAT article by the Post, who picked it up from The Weekly Standard.

You can thank Ed Barnes at:

editor@weeklystandard.com
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Pub:
3.) HCI has 475,000 members - I didn't know that they had that many. Must be giving away free memberships. Perhaps the NRA should have a low cost associate membership and sign up an additional 10,000,000 people. Free with the purchase of a gun - paid for by the gun makers.[/quote]

Just for reference, folks, Taurus is doing just this. Buy a new Taurus between April-somethingth and October-somethingth, send them a copy of their coupon, your receipt and your 4473 form, and they send you a certificate for a 1-year NRA membership. They say it is valid for both new members and renewals (and promise to destroy the 4473s after they process your paperwork).
http://www.taurususa.com/nrarelease.html for more info.
 
I've heard that the dirty little secret about the "membership" numbers of gun control organizations is that they count everyone who contacts them for information as a member... Not just the folks who've signed up to be members and pay dues, like with the NRA.

So if you've ever called their 1-800 number, and requested an info packet, just to cost them some money, you're part of that 475,000.
At least, that's how I've heard it works.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
Oatka:

Re your comment, who knows, you might be right. HOWEVER, the last time I looked, the stated goal of the Anti Gun Lobby was still THE TOTAL PROSCRIPTION OF FIREARMS.

This came originally from the late Nelson "Pete" Shields, who as I recall was the founder or one of the founders of Handgun control, Inc., and has been offered in the intervening years by such as Congressman John Conyers, and has more recently been repeated by Senator Dianne Feinstein.

The foregoing leave me wondering as to what, if anything, has changed re the goals of the anti Gun Lobby, including the "fragmentation" that you mention.
 
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