Gun control loosing fire and hurting Demo's ! & some poll data

madison46

New member
www.gallup.com The cnn/gallup tracking poll has Bush at 49 and Gore at 39 ! (I don't like this poll - swings too much, but if others show Bush with lead at or above margin of error, it could be significant)

Post/ABC poll has Bush 48 Gore 44

Portriat of America poll has Bush at 46 Gore 41

come on Ladies and Gentlemen, lets 'slam' 'em good at the polls. Next time they will be VERY, VERY wary of us gun rights guys if we win.

Good read below:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44178-2000Oct19.html

For Democrats, Gun Issue Is Losing Its Fire

By Juliet Eilperin and Thomas B. Edsall
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday , October 20, 2000 ; Page A01


MONROEVILLE, Pa. – The issue of guns – once seen as a potential winner for Democrats – is now threatening the party's prospects of keeping the White House and regaining control of Congress, according to strategists and officials with both major parties.

The problem for Democrats is that gun control is unpopular among many of the swing voters both campaigns are targeting in the final weeks of the campaign, particularly in battleground states – such as Michigan, Missouri, Ohio and Pennsylvania – with a sizable bloc of hunters and other gun enthusiasts.

As a result, Vice President Gore has moderated his anti-gun rhetoric in recent weeks, going out of his way in the last two presidential debates to emphasize that he would not take guns away from sportsmen. And many House and Senate Democrats have found that gun control is not resonating in many key contests like other issues, such as prescription drugs.

The situation underscores the volatile politics of gun control this election. After the Columbine High School shootings a year and a half ago, anti-gun advocates had political momentum, but politicians and pollsters say the National Rifle Association and others appear to have had some success with the argument that more enforcement, not new laws, is what's needed.

"Watch Al Gore on guns and you can see the issue has not had the universal appeal some people had anticipated," said Rep. Thomas M. Davis III (Va.), who chairs the House GOP's campaign arm and supports stricter gun laws. "It's not a national issue. It's a regional one."

Fueling the pro-gun forces has been a massive mobilization by the NRA under the banner of "Vote Freedom First," as the group has blanketed the airwaves and billboards in key states with the message that guns alone should be the deciding factor in this year's election.

In Pennsylvania, for example, which boasts the second-highest number of gun owners in the nation next to Texas, more than 1,000 National Rifle Association supporters jammed a hotel ballroom early Wednesday morning to attend a rally headlined by NRA President Charlton Heston.

The former movie star told audience members they were "the direct descendants of America's revolutionary heroes" by working to elect gun control opponents such as Republicans George W. Bush, Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) and House candidate Melissa Hart.

"They won their freedom with bullets so that we could defend our freedom with ballots," Heston told the crowd at Al Monzo's Palace Inn here. "That is the holy war which you in this room help wage and win. But instead of fighting the Redcoats, we're fighting the blue-blood elitists."

Several members of the audience said they were not only voting Republican this year, they were also volunteering on behalf of GOP candidates to make sure Congress does not take up gun control legislation next year. Last summer in the wake of Columbine, the House narrowly defeated a measure that would have imposed a three-day background check on firearms purchased at gun shows.

"I'm not a gun fanatic, I'm a constitutional fanatic," said Gibsonia resident Michael O'Block, who will be working the polls for Hart in her bid to succeed Rep. Ron Klink (D). Klink is challenging Santorum for his Senate seat.

Beth Wineland, a 29-year-old catering manager, said, "If Gore gets elected I'm going to be buying a gun as soon as I can, because I'm going to lose that right."

Heston attracted crowds of 5,000 each in Hershey, Pa., later that day and in Flint, Mich., on Tuesday, where union workers made up a sizable portion of the audience. Yesterday, he traveled to Virginia for three more rallies.

"You know, if Vice President Gore had the guts of a guppy," Heston said last night to the laughter of several hundred supporters at a Richmond hotel, "he would simply stand up and say, 'Look, I was wrong. . .?. I pretended to be in favor of gun rights – I really am not.' But, of course, he's not going to do that."

The intensity of the NRA drive has thrown a wrench into AFL-CIO efforts to mobilize on behalf of Democratic candidates, especially in Michigan, West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Washington. In Michigan, state Rep. Valde Garcia attended an NRA rally in the town of DeWitt, and he estimated that at least half the men in the audience wore United Auto Workers jackets. "This [gun control] is a real issue with these guys," he said.

Steve Rosenthal, political director of the AFL-CIO, said union members have been bringing their leaders leaflets from pro-gun groups telling members, "Defend your guns, defeat Al Gore." Labor leaders are now countering with a message delivered directly to members that "Al Gore doesn't want to take your gun away, but George Bush wants to take away your union."

Rosenthal contended that "the NRA stuff is so strong that is is not really credible." But key officials in the Gore campaign believe that it is a major reason for the erosion of Gore support in such states as Pennsylvania and Michigan.

Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center, said Gore's decision to deemphasize gun control may be based on poll trends that show a reduction in the overall support for gun control, especially among men.

Gore had been an ardent gun control advocate during his primary fights with Bill Bradley. Bob Shrum, one of his media advisers, said gun control remains "a continuing issue" in the campaign. He denied that Gore has backed away, noting "in the second debate, we had a whole discussion on that."

In fact, in the second debate, Gore chose first to say that he and Bush "agree on some things" and that he "will not do anything to affect the rights of hunters or sportsmen."

He did refer to his support for closing a loophole allowing the unregulated sale of guns at gun shows, for restoration of the three-day waiting period and mandatory trigger locks, but he made no mention – as gun critics wanted – of a provision in a Bush-backed Texas law that allows people to carry concealed weapons while in such places as churches. Only when pressed did Gore refer to his support for requiring photo licensing for new gun purchasers.

Gore's shift has disappointed gun control advocates such as Cathie Kopecky, who served as the Million Mom March's coordinator for western Pennsylvania.

"I'm angry about it," said Kopecky. "Both presidential candidates are pretty silent on the issue. They're trying to say what both sides want to hear."

Last year, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee Chairman Patrick J. Kennedy (R.I.) predicted his party would hang the gun issue around Republicans' "necks on Election Day," but in recent months House Democrats have also scaled back their legislative and rhetorical attacks.

Laura Nichols, spokeswoman for House Minority Leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.), said Republicans have simply stymied the Democrats' attempts to force action on gun control.

There are some contests where Democrats are pressing the issue of gun control, including the Virginia and Florida Senate races. Handgun Control political director Joe Sudbay said this demonstrates "there's a big sea change in terms of how this issue is being debated and perceived."

But the issue of gun control is also being used to attack Democratic candidates in such states as Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Washington. Klink – who had voted consistently with the NRA until he backed the three-day gun show check last summer – said he's well aware he may now have to pay a political price.

"If you're not a 100 percent with them, they come at you from both sides," Klink said during a rally in his district Tuesday night. "In this state the gun issue has defeated a lot of people on the state and local level. It's a powerful issue, and there are a lot of single-issue voters here."

Edsall reported from Washington. Staff writers David S. Broder in Michigan and Robert H. Melton in Richmond contributed to this report.

© 2000 The Washington Post
 
"Watch Al Gore on guns and you can see the issue has not had the universal appeal some people had anticipated," said Rep. Thomas M. Davis III (Va.), who chairs the House GOP's campaign arm and supports stricter gun laws. "It's not a national issue. It's a regional one."

"...who chairs the House GOP's campaign arm and supports stricter gun laws."

I've long wondered why the GOP shies away from running on the gun issue, even though their exit polls tell them it's a winner. This clown, and idiots like him, are probably the reason! Let's keep this guy's name in mind, and make sure he has primary opposition 2 years from now!


------------------
Sic semper tyrannis!
 
With the Bush upswing in the polls, Gore effectively writing off Ohio, and looking at the Electoral College vote count, this could be an Electoral College landslide for Bush. It could be a repeat of the 1994 'angry white male' election. I think that it would be incredibly humorous to see Bush take the Whitehouse and Republicans and Libertarians actually gain seats in the Senate and House. Much of it they would be forced to attribute to the pro-gun support in swing states. Less than three weeks to go and I am starting to be optomistic.
 
Jeff OTMG:

Either what you say will happen which would be great. I doubt the Dems would come after us with great gusto next time. The House is polling as a tossup on who is going to control it. I don't know what the polls said in 1994, but it could happen that GOP gains some seats.

For me, it sure would be nice to have a GOP senate, GOP house, and a GOP prez. It would help counter the CA Dem Assembly, the CA Dem Senate, and the Dem Gov. here in CA.

However, I have another fear. Gore is so close, sometimes leading, sometimes not, in PA, FL, MI that he could win the Electoral vote and Bush would win the popular vote. If Gore takes MI, FL, and PA, Bush would be hard pressed to win the election.

If the election comes down to an ad war, GOP has 45 million, the Dems have 25 million. The NRA is expected to spend around 20 million.

New radio ads are being run by www.hsshf.org in PA and MI. You can hear them at that site.

madison46

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff OTMG:
With the Bush upswing in the polls, Gore effectively writing off Ohio, and looking at the Electoral College vote count, this could be an Electoral College landslide for Bush. It could be a repeat of the 1994 'angry white male' election. I think that it would be incredibly humorous to see Bush take the Whitehouse and Republicans and Libertarians actually gain seats in the Senate and House. Much of it they would be forced to attribute to the pro-gun support in swing states. Less than three weeks to go and I am starting to be optomistic.[/quote]
 
The problem for Democrats is that gun control is unpopular among many of the swing voters . . . particularly in battleground states – such as Michigan, Missouri, Ohio and Pennsylvania – with a sizable bloc of hunters and other gun enthusiasts.

For us all, but especially in the above states, it behooves us to enlighten our gun-owning buddies who are voting (or thinking that way) for Gore.

My boys are on the railroad and they are fighting an uphill battle with the gun-owning pro-Union boys. One of 'em actually said, "I'm a hunter, Gore won't bother me."(!!) He's being worked on as I write.
 
Oatka:

Who will stand with him after they are done with us sport shooters and self-defense owners??

There is an old story about a Jew in WWII:

When they came for the Poles, I did nothing, it didn't affect me. When they came for the gypsies, I did nothing, it didn't affect me. When they came for me, there was no one left to help me.

Forgot the author of that type of quote, but it makes very good sense.

madison46

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oatka:
The problem for Democrats is that gun control is unpopular among many of the swing voters . . . particularly in battleground states – such as Michigan, Missouri, Ohio and Pennsylvania – with a sizable bloc of hunters and other gun enthusiasts.

For us all, but especially in the above states, it behooves us to enlighten our gun-owning buddies who are voting (or thinking that way) for Gore.

My boys are on the railroad and they are fighting an uphill battle with the gun-owning pro-Union boys. One of 'em actually said, "I'm a hunter, Gore won't bother me."(!!) He's being worked on as I write.

[/quote]
 
Today I gave two different black fellows that work for us (subcontracters) a copy of
JPFO's gun control is racist booklets.
Ya see many of these fellows will vote for Gore because their local leader Harold Ford
JR (D-TN) told them hes the better choice.
One thing I know about may I say black people like all people they talk to their families about such interesting things and
quite unfortunatly blacks make up a large block of liberal voters most so because many
democrats are black.
Most here are shocked when I tell them all the gun control laws their 'favorite' congressmen has suppoted.
 
madison46 - that was actually a Lutheran minister by the name of Martin Niemoller. The full quote is:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945
Here's a good link on him -- http://www.hoboes.com/html/FireBlade/Politics/niemoller.shtml
 
An update on Rev. Niemoller's lament:

In Gore's world, gun owners would say:

"First they confiscated the handguns, and I didn’t speak up, because I didn't own one.

Then they confiscated the 'assault rifles', and I didn’t speak up, because I didn't own one.

Then they confiscated the 'sniper rifles', and I didn’t speak up, because I didn't own one.

Then they confiscated my hunting rifle, but by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.

by Mr. Gun Owner, 2001"
 
Bruegger:

Thanks.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruegger:
madison46 - that was actually a Lutheran minister by the name of Martin Niemoller. The full quote is:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945
Here's a good link on him -- http://www.hoboes.com/html/FireBlade/Politics/niemoller.shtml
[/quote]
 
First for the spelling-challenged, the word which is prounounced "Loozing" is not spelled "loosing" it is spelled "losing".

One loses a bet.
One loosens his tie.

Primarily, however, it seems that you all think this will happen withouth y'all going out there and working for it. I say again, contact your local GOP chair (he's in the book) and tell him you want to volunteer.

This is what the NRA Get-Out-The-Vote people tols us at a seminar several weeks ago here in Phx. "Put a bumper sticker on your car and a sign in your yard. The bumper sticker is worth $400 in free advertising."

If you live in a battleground state this is even more important. If you live in a gimme state, you time might be better spent working for a local candidate.

Rick
 
I just did range officer duty for our first hunter sight-in today, and gave everyone a leaflet on Gore's gun control plans. Also left copies at the gun shops. Here in Milwaukee, the unions rule, but the members have got to know what's going on. If nothing else, maybe it will discourage them and they'll stay home on election day. Starting November 2, the Bush campaign will need volunteers for the phone banks. If you like talking on the phone, please consider donating two hours of time for that effort.
Also, try hanging out at the gun shops on election day. Last time I was able to get two guys to the polls who hadn't gone. Hey, it was two votes.

If anyone would like to print up something to give to gun owners, feel free to use this:

Gun Owners: What's in store under Gore

1. Licensing. Al Gore has promised to require purchasers of handguns to pass a government-run test, to be fingerprinted, photographed and licensed. Why? Why treat honest citizens like criminals when he knows full well that criminals won’t get licensed? Gun owners in New York and California have learned about licensing the hard way, as they wait weeks and even months to get their licenses, and have the fees increase to the point where the average working man can’t afford it. Gore is taking his orders from Handgun Control Inc and trying to implement a strategy that worked so well in England, Canada and Australia: require licensing, then raise the fees to the point where few people can afford the licenses. Then, when crime still hasn’t fallen, require gun owners to register their guns. Then, when that doesn’t stop crime, collect and destroy the
registered guns.

2. Further gun bans. Gore has promised to ban “assault weapons.” Is he looking to expand upon the list of rifles and shotguns that were banned in the 1994 crime bill? Or is he looking to confiscate the AR15’s, SKS’s, M1’s and other guns that were grandfathered in under the bill? Last September, on Larry King Live, Gore even said he would favor banning 9 millimeter and .380 caliber handguns. Don’t own any of these?
Well, if you own a scoped deer rifle, you have what Handgun Control calls a “sniper rifle.” Are you just going to sit and wait forHandgun Control to tell Gore to ban those as well? Can’t happen? Look at England.

3. Gun Shows. Gore has promised to close the “gun show loophole.” You and I know there is no loophole. Every licensed dealer at a gun show has to do the same background checks that a gun store does. Gore’s plan would effectively end the private sales of guns. Want to sell a gun to your friend? You’ll have to go through the background check and waiting period. And, despite the fact that the Brady Law requires that all records of a transaction be destroyed once the background check has been completed, the Clinton/Gore administration has been violating the law by keeping those records in an FBI database.

4. Registration. Gore has promised to enact what he calls “supertracing” of guns by the BATF. This is a backdoor way of registering guns by requiring the manufacturer to record the name of the dealer who
purchased a gun along with the name of the citizen who finally bought it, and supply these names to the BATF.

5. The Emerson Case. Last year a Dr. Emerson was arrested in Texas for violating a little-known provision of a 1996 crime bill called the Lautenberg amendment. Emerson’s case went before a federal judge who declared that the amendment violated Emerson’s Second Amendment rights. The Clinton/Gore administration appealed that decision and the matter is now before the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. The case may well go to the Supreme Court, where a definitive decision on the Second Amendment may finally be made. In the first few days of arguments in the 5th Circuit Court, attorneys for the Justice Department stated that it is the position of the Clinton/Gore administration that the only people who have a right to own guns are members of the National Guard, and only when those guardsmen are on active duty!

6. The Supreme Court. The next president will appoint as many as four new Supreme Court justices to replace those who will be retiring in the next couple of years. Can we afford to have justices who will rule that the only people who have a right to own guns are the on-duty National Guardsmen?

This election is the most important one that gun owners have ever faced. Al Gore has made it clear that he stands with Handgun Control and other groups in their effort to eventually disarm America.

IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR GUNS, YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO LET AL GORE BE ELECTED!
VOTE, AND MAKE SURE YOUR GUN OWNER FRIENDS VOTE FOR GUN RIGHTS!

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
Monkeyleg:
Great reasoning for why Gore is not a friend of the 2nd Amendment. I think I will use it. Many thanks !


[This message has been edited by madison46 (edited October 22, 2000).]
 
My own version is, "First they came for the tobacco, and I said nothing because I don't smoke. Then they came for the alcohol, and I said nothing because I don't drink. Then they came for the books. I reached for my gun....

...oops."

------------------
“It is criminal not to teach a man to defend himself when he is the
constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a
shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law.”--Malcolm X
 
The threads get shut down when they reach a certain size and this is not helped by the inclusion of a block quote of every post in every subsequent post. It also slows down the loading time of the threads.

Hold it down with the block quotes, okay?
 
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