If there ever was proof that gun control kills...just take a look at what is happening in Zimbabwe today...gang rape and killing of farmers is tearing the country apart the reason is simple...gun control.....when Mugabe came into power he banned citizens from owning what are called "weapons of war" which are....which are pump-action shotguns, hunting rifles, automatic rifles, a light machine gun, telescopic sights, handguns....the only people with guns in Zimbabwe today are the thugs....the lawful citizens handed thiers in and are now dying for doing that.....I rest my case
GUN CONTROL IS KILLING FARMERS
- Thread starter robnoel
- Start date
Good Evening Robnoel: You mentioned gun control is killing....
I think Gun control is not only killing farmers but also all law abiding citizens who really needs to have guns for personal protection.
In my country there is really a hard time of renewing or getting new licenses now. For Permit to carry, it has been suspended for the past few months.
I am in favor on the strict issuance of lincenses to screen legitimate applicants but the suspension of carry permits is really a burden for the legitimate applicants.
Right now, I opened a computer center and I am afraid if one day a thug or a hold upper will approach and ask me for what I have earned for the whole day without employing any resistance at all against their pistols or guns. In my area there were series of hold-ups to small shop too and they were not able to resist as they have no Firearms against the armed criminals.
I pray that sooner or later the permit to carry suspension will be lifted and the good applicants will be given.
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited April 20, 2000).]
I think Gun control is not only killing farmers but also all law abiding citizens who really needs to have guns for personal protection.
In my country there is really a hard time of renewing or getting new licenses now. For Permit to carry, it has been suspended for the past few months.
I am in favor on the strict issuance of lincenses to screen legitimate applicants but the suspension of carry permits is really a burden for the legitimate applicants.
Right now, I opened a computer center and I am afraid if one day a thug or a hold upper will approach and ask me for what I have earned for the whole day without employing any resistance at all against their pistols or guns. In my area there were series of hold-ups to small shop too and they were not able to resist as they have no Firearms against the armed criminals.
I pray that sooner or later the permit to carry suspension will be lifted and the good applicants will be given.
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited April 20, 2000).]
The situation in Zimbabwe is the exact reason the Founders included the 2nd A.
Mugabe has disarmed a specific segment of the population and armed his thugs, with express purpose of eliminating the target group.
Mugabe is the gov't and has enacted state-sanctioned genocide.
Remember this folks....this isn't about guns in truth, its about power and control. DOJ stats show that 99% of all guns are not used in a harmful manner...you don't kill a person to cure him because he has a localized spot of skin cancer. Its power, and after the guns are gone, your money, your privacy and your thoughts will follow.....it will be conform or die
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
Mugabe has disarmed a specific segment of the population and armed his thugs, with express purpose of eliminating the target group.
Mugabe is the gov't and has enacted state-sanctioned genocide.
Remember this folks....this isn't about guns in truth, its about power and control. DOJ stats show that 99% of all guns are not used in a harmful manner...you don't kill a person to cure him because he has a localized spot of skin cancer. Its power, and after the guns are gone, your money, your privacy and your thoughts will follow.....it will be conform or die
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
In the interests of accuracy, that's not 'zactly true. There are farmers with hunting rifles (heavily controlled).
The specifics of the home invasions that are so terrifying is that the average farmer is very isolated. When 50 0r a 100 hoodlums show up to occupy your place a bolt gun is not the right tool for the mission. The farmer can also count on being prosecuted or lynched if he uses gunfire to deter the squatters.
We still have not heard a thing from a friend (PH) in Zim. Praying that he and his are surviving...
Giz
The specifics of the home invasions that are so terrifying is that the average farmer is very isolated. When 50 0r a 100 hoodlums show up to occupy your place a bolt gun is not the right tool for the mission. The farmer can also count on being prosecuted or lynched if he uses gunfire to deter the squatters.
We still have not heard a thing from a friend (PH) in Zim. Praying that he and his are surviving...
Giz
I have been watching this with interest. This all goes back to what another TFL'er has recently posted as a reply to those who would disarm us. To univerally disarm (not possible, but for the sake of their argument we'll go along with it) is to place the weak at the mercy of the strong, the old at the mercy of the young and violent, the few at the mercy of the many. Note that many of the attackers are armed with nothing more than bricks and knives, but in numbers against the disarmed farmers, that is enough. I feel so sorry for those people, and wonder how the anti-self defense people can reconcile this in their hearts.
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When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; IT IS that they shall be destroyed forever...Psalms 92.7
[This message has been edited by Jhp147 (edited April 20, 2000).]
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When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; IT IS that they shall be destroyed forever...Psalms 92.7
[This message has been edited by Jhp147 (edited April 20, 2000).]
Gizmo99...With all due respect 3 Americans (free now)....faced the possibility of life in prison for trying to leave Zimbabwe with certain firearms including rifles...heres the story that got no coverage in the US
Three American missionaries, having been arrested for trying to board an aircraft with gun parts in their luggage on March 7 in Harare, Zimbabwe, were tortured for three days and have been kept in solitary confinement.
The three men, Gary Blanchard, Joe Pettijohn and John LaMonte Dixon, did not appear in court until March 13, There, one of them asked a journalist if he was perhaps their lawyer. The question posed by the missionary, underlines the fact that the men had been denied access to legal representation for seven days, although a 48 hours habeas-corpus is what Zimbabwean law requires.
http://www.christianfreedom.org/frontline/news/CFI_urges_release_of_missionaries.asp
Three American missionaries, having been arrested for trying to board an aircraft with gun parts in their luggage on March 7 in Harare, Zimbabwe, were tortured for three days and have been kept in solitary confinement.
The three men, Gary Blanchard, Joe Pettijohn and John LaMonte Dixon, did not appear in court until March 13, There, one of them asked a journalist if he was perhaps their lawyer. The question posed by the missionary, underlines the fact that the men had been denied access to legal representation for seven days, although a 48 hours habeas-corpus is what Zimbabwean law requires.
http://www.christianfreedom.org/frontline/news/CFI_urges_release_of_missionaries.asp
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
Robnoel, if they tried that in almost any country you care to name, the results would have been similar. The US is pretty much the only place you can expect a sembalance of human rights.
The farmers have firearms available, but it would be suicide for them to resist. The bad guys also have firearms - not all the AKs were turned in.
When your nearest neighbor is miles away, self defense has a real emphasis on "self".
Giz
The farmers have firearms available, but it would be suicide for them to resist. The bad guys also have firearms - not all the AKs were turned in.
When your nearest neighbor is miles away, self defense has a real emphasis on "self".
Giz
simonov jr
New member
How long will their economy last when White Flight takes hold?
Jeff Thomas
New member
It isn't just a matter of 'white flight' ... it will be the flight of their productive middle class and educated people. And, the flight of anyone who demands respect for private property ... that is, productive human beings.
And, stdalire, I'm glad you've commented on this piece, and I respect your perspective from the Phillipines. I would offer one observation ... consider being a bit less optimistic about registration schemes. Sure, run by honest people, they are theoretically alright. But, that is the problem. The RKBA is most necessary when government is dishonest, and dishonesty and brutality in government are nearly inevitable ... examine history for those lessons.
Therefore, registration schemes cannot be acceptable because they are so often (and probably inevitably) abused by those in power.
IMHO.
Regards from AZ
And, stdalire, I'm glad you've commented on this piece, and I respect your perspective from the Phillipines. I would offer one observation ... consider being a bit less optimistic about registration schemes. Sure, run by honest people, they are theoretically alright. But, that is the problem. The RKBA is most necessary when government is dishonest, and dishonesty and brutality in government are nearly inevitable ... examine history for those lessons.
Therefore, registration schemes cannot be acceptable because they are so often (and probably inevitably) abused by those in power.
IMHO.
Regards from AZ
simonov..
These farms are the only part of the economy still functioning at present. The Zim economy is deep in the toilet...the farms are the last thing before complete collapse.
I give it 2 weeks after the white farmers bail or are killed off.
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
These farms are the only part of the economy still functioning at present. The Zim economy is deep in the toilet...the farms are the last thing before complete collapse.
I give it 2 weeks after the white farmers bail or are killed off.
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
Remember when you talk of the economy, Mugabe would no doubt prefer to keep himself in power than have a good economy.
I hope Mugabe backs off from genocid. The last thing we need is another horrifying example of the evils of gun control. The last three centuries are stewn with millions of its victims and that is enough.
I hope Mugabe backs off from genocid. The last thing we need is another horrifying example of the evils of gun control. The last three centuries are stewn with millions of its victims and that is enough.
AZ,
Yeah! you are right - theoretically it is good to hear all the gov't policies on the subjects but because of still many dishonest and corrupt in the gov't still the old ways can be seen around.
I experienced when I newly arrived in the Phils for the last 2 weeks. I undergo all the necessary requirements in renewing my 9MM. One of the applicants I asked how did he secure all his papers so fast has revealed to me that one lady inside the camp approached him for a fee of some of his papers and he did not take any queue anymore to secure some of his papers. I asked him if he took the actual firing test to put three bullets in the Alpha but he said no more. I saw in his folders he has Neuro results and I asked why he had already when in fact mine haven't released yet, he said he was asked to pay for some amount by the lady again inside the camp who is a Colonel relative. So, I was surprised. Well the guy is an old man, and perhaps he was given priority so as to renew only his .22 caliber license. But if we talk real cleansing then these small source of corruptions should be eradicated. Until now my Neuro exam haven't release yet so that i can complete paying my renewal for my 9MM. I was told that it has to be checked by Firearms and Explosives Personnel again and returned back to the clinic whom I had my test. The easiest documents that I had secured is drug test, which took only 20 minutes.
Other thing, when I am queueing in getting my Intelligence clearance from the Dept of Interior, there are still fixers but what is good the applicants will really go there personally to have his photo beIng taken.
My 9mm is still grounded for license renewal, what is good, my .45 has still 1 yr validity.
What I had seen and observed also from the Philippine National Police side during the seminar is, they won't stop people procuring and licensing on guns but with the many round around task to secure the documents needed, it will be hard for busy man to attend all these.
I FEEL I AM BEING DICTATED MUCH BY SOME HIGH OFFICIALS IN AUTHORITY BY IMPOSING ALL LAWS AND RULES AFFECTING MY RIGHTS FOR MY SELF PROTECTION.
Yeah! you are right - theoretically it is good to hear all the gov't policies on the subjects but because of still many dishonest and corrupt in the gov't still the old ways can be seen around.
I experienced when I newly arrived in the Phils for the last 2 weeks. I undergo all the necessary requirements in renewing my 9MM. One of the applicants I asked how did he secure all his papers so fast has revealed to me that one lady inside the camp approached him for a fee of some of his papers and he did not take any queue anymore to secure some of his papers. I asked him if he took the actual firing test to put three bullets in the Alpha but he said no more. I saw in his folders he has Neuro results and I asked why he had already when in fact mine haven't released yet, he said he was asked to pay for some amount by the lady again inside the camp who is a Colonel relative. So, I was surprised. Well the guy is an old man, and perhaps he was given priority so as to renew only his .22 caliber license. But if we talk real cleansing then these small source of corruptions should be eradicated. Until now my Neuro exam haven't release yet so that i can complete paying my renewal for my 9MM. I was told that it has to be checked by Firearms and Explosives Personnel again and returned back to the clinic whom I had my test. The easiest documents that I had secured is drug test, which took only 20 minutes.
Other thing, when I am queueing in getting my Intelligence clearance from the Dept of Interior, there are still fixers but what is good the applicants will really go there personally to have his photo beIng taken.
My 9mm is still grounded for license renewal, what is good, my .45 has still 1 yr validity.
What I had seen and observed also from the Philippine National Police side during the seminar is, they won't stop people procuring and licensing on guns but with the many round around task to secure the documents needed, it will be hard for busy man to attend all these.
I FEEL I AM BEING DICTATED MUCH BY SOME HIGH OFFICIALS IN AUTHORITY BY IMPOSING ALL LAWS AND RULES AFFECTING MY RIGHTS FOR MY SELF PROTECTION.
robnoel,
I remember reading several articles on this subject, in our local paper, at the time of their release. One of the missionaries -Pettijohn- has family in the area. It was not just gun parts in their luggage, but that is what prompted the search of all of the crates they were transporting to their mission. From what I can remember, the firearms these guys had,according to the charges made against them and interviews with the missionaries, while as the article you posted said were not fully automatic, also were not your everyday hunting rifle. I remember thinking at the time that, most of the missionaries that come to our area on fundraising trips would have been pretty well set with the amount that those weapons cost. Again, if my memory is not too foggy, they had at least a dozen rifles, including some military style semiautomatics - HK varieties come to mind but I'm not positive, as well as some much heavier bolt rifles, shotguns, and handguns. You pull into any airport anywhere in the world, with that amount of serious social hardware in unlableled/mislabled crates, and you are going to get funny looks, not just in 3rd world countries were all of this stuff was illegal to bring in. They were charged at one point with smuggling weapons, and were thought to be supplying them to one of the factions in one of the neverending wars in that part of the world, I can't remember which.
bergie
I remember reading several articles on this subject, in our local paper, at the time of their release. One of the missionaries -Pettijohn- has family in the area. It was not just gun parts in their luggage, but that is what prompted the search of all of the crates they were transporting to their mission. From what I can remember, the firearms these guys had,according to the charges made against them and interviews with the missionaries, while as the article you posted said were not fully automatic, also were not your everyday hunting rifle. I remember thinking at the time that, most of the missionaries that come to our area on fundraising trips would have been pretty well set with the amount that those weapons cost. Again, if my memory is not too foggy, they had at least a dozen rifles, including some military style semiautomatics - HK varieties come to mind but I'm not positive, as well as some much heavier bolt rifles, shotguns, and handguns. You pull into any airport anywhere in the world, with that amount of serious social hardware in unlableled/mislabled crates, and you are going to get funny looks, not just in 3rd world countries were all of this stuff was illegal to bring in. They were charged at one point with smuggling weapons, and were thought to be supplying them to one of the factions in one of the neverending wars in that part of the world, I can't remember which.
bergie
Jeff Thomas wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And, stdalire, I'm glad you've commented on this piece, and I respect your perspective from the Phillipines. I would offer one observation ... consider being a bit less optimistic about registration schemes. Sure, run by honest people, they are theoretically alright. But, that is the problem. The RKBA is most necessary when government is dishonest, and dishonesty and brutality in government are nearly inevitable ... examine history for those lessons.
Therefore, registration schemes cannot be acceptable because they are so often (and probably inevitably) abused by those in power.[/quote]
as in ....
Stdalire wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In my country there is really a hard time of renewing or getting new licenses now. For Permit to carry, it has been suspended for the past few months.[/quote]
Therefore, registration schemes cannot be acceptable because they are so often (and probably inevitably) abused by those in power.[/quote]
as in ....
Stdalire wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In my country there is really a hard time of renewing or getting new licenses now. For Permit to carry, it has been suspended for the past few months.[/quote]