Gun bluing
- Thread starter MDS
- Start date
SURE YOU CAN, Brownells sells a blueing system for around $1500.00, last i looked. You wont need buffers for a beed blast finish, but you will need an air supply and a bead blaster for a matte finish!
For a finish that will hold up, if taken care of, have someone that can do it right. The cold blues and paint are just cheap spinoffs!
Hot caustic blueing is still the right way to go and if your not set up to do this, someone in your area is, and at $75.00 to $150.00 you'll be happy with it.
For a finish that will hold up, if taken care of, have someone that can do it right. The cold blues and paint are just cheap spinoffs!
Hot caustic blueing is still the right way to go and if your not set up to do this, someone in your area is, and at $75.00 to $150.00 you'll be happy with it.
hoghunting
New member
I've reblued a few old shotgun barrels with the cold blues just to see which ones worked. The Oxpho-Blue from Brownells worked better than all of the ones I used, but it seems to surface rust extremely quickly. The cold blues will do touch-ups very well, but they just don't work well for a complete bluing.
If you want to do a matte finish, you might try using the spray-on finishes that are baked on:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/catsearch.aspx?c=754&p=4798
If you want to do a matte finish, you might try using the spray-on finishes that are baked on:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/catsearch.aspx?c=754&p=4798
One way to save money on a hot tank blue is to disassemble the gun yourself, and agree to re-assemble it when the job is done. On some guns, disassembly and re-assembly takes 3-4 times as long as polishing and bluing, and the customer pays for that time.
Even better is what I like to do, which is to do the polishing myself. That way, I can get exactly what I want in the way of copying an original finish.
Jim
Even better is what I like to do, which is to do the polishing myself. That way, I can get exactly what I want in the way of copying an original finish.
Jim
I have had excellent results with rust blueing. It is extremely labour intensive, preparation has to be *clean clean* but Midway sells the smallest bottle for about $7. It is not very hard to do, the first job turned brown but now I have a black that can barely be rivaled by hot blue.
I usually use Belgian blue and the biggest downside is that the parts have to be boiled, i.e. you'll need a pan large enough to immerse the part. Kind of hard for rifle barrels.
I usually use Belgian blue and the biggest downside is that the parts have to be boiled, i.e. you'll need a pan large enough to immerse the part. Kind of hard for rifle barrels.
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"...didn't think bluing was that inexpensive..." The expensive part of having a bluing job done is the prep work. Polishing is all hand work. If that isn't done well, the bluing job will be poor too. And like Jim says, you pay by the hour to have the smithy do the disassembling.
Take out all the springs, tap a cast bullet into the muzzle and put an empty case in the chamber(with a spent primer), and send only the parts you want blued.
"...can you do a matte black..." Yep. It's all in the prep work.
Take out all the springs, tap a cast bullet into the muzzle and put an empty case in the chamber(with a spent primer), and send only the parts you want blued.
"...can you do a matte black..." Yep. It's all in the prep work.
Hot Blueing
May I respectfully suggest that the information on plugging the bbl, even one end, is dangerous. Blueing is a stain and won't change the dimensions of the bbl interior. It disappears the first time you shoot it.
One of Brownell's Kinks books has a short article about making sure a bbl is clear before you put it in the tank.
It's bad enough to have to plug a bbl when parkerizing, that always makes me nervous. I sure don't want to put a bbl in hot salts that isn't clear on both ends.
May I respectfully suggest that the information on plugging the bbl, even one end, is dangerous. Blueing is a stain and won't change the dimensions of the bbl interior. It disappears the first time you shoot it.
One of Brownell's Kinks books has a short article about making sure a bbl is clear before you put it in the tank.
It's bad enough to have to plug a bbl when parkerizing, that always makes me nervous. I sure don't want to put a bbl in hot salts that isn't clear on both ends.
Mds
Have you checked around your area yet. In my neck of the woods there are 3 people that do blueing, 1 with a repair shop and 2 who do nice work at a price i wouldnt do it for, guess thats why my tanks are down at the moment. They do it for a little extra money for reloading and gun buying, really ask around, and if you have to strip the gun down as much as you can, you can save some money. A friend polished his own gun and when one of these guys was ready to do a batch, it cost him $20.00 for the blueing. He did all the rest!
Have you checked around your area yet. In my neck of the woods there are 3 people that do blueing, 1 with a repair shop and 2 who do nice work at a price i wouldnt do it for, guess thats why my tanks are down at the moment. They do it for a little extra money for reloading and gun buying, really ask around, and if you have to strip the gun down as much as you can, you can save some money. A friend polished his own gun and when one of these guys was ready to do a batch, it cost him $20.00 for the blueing. He did all the rest!
Dave Haven
New member
Re: George R
My Dad has been plugging both ends of rifle barrels with rubber plugs for hot blueing for over 40 years, and has NEVER had a plug come out of a barrel until he PULLED IT OUT.
Hot blueing temperatures will produce less than 10 PSIG inside a plugged barrel. Unless there's water in the barrel when it's plugged.
You may. And I respectfully reply, "Horse pucky!"
My Dad has been plugging both ends of rifle barrels with rubber plugs for hot blueing for over 40 years, and has NEVER had a plug come out of a barrel until he PULLED IT OUT.
Hot blueing temperatures will produce less than 10 PSIG inside a plugged barrel. Unless there's water in the barrel when it's plugged.
It's not a stain, its a layer of oxidation on the surface. It may not change the dimensions more than a few millionths of an inch, but it WILL change the surface finish and coefficient of friction. And it can destroy accuracy, especially in smaller calibers.
Hot Blueing
OK! All I can go on is what they told me at Yavapei and from my own personal experience. I never heard of a shop plugging the barrels to hot salt blue, and have never had a customer complain about the bore being blued. I'm going to check with the tech crew at Brownell's and will let you know what they say. Who's salts are you using?
Here's what Brownell's says: "About plugging the bores: DON"T. The govt ran several tests at Rock Island Armory years ago on a series of blued bores as compared to unblued. With this method of gun bluing, it was found that the blued bores gave longer bbl life and better muzzle pressures-very slight of course, but proves the point. Just be SURE and scrub them throughly after blueing to remove all traces of salts. Further: These modern solutions are hard on wood and the heat insside the bbls expands the air and the plugs blow out very easily Dangerous" The caps are Brownell's, not mine. Perhaps your Dad was rust blueing not salts?
OK! All I can go on is what they told me at Yavapei and from my own personal experience. I never heard of a shop plugging the barrels to hot salt blue, and have never had a customer complain about the bore being blued. I'm going to check with the tech crew at Brownell's and will let you know what they say. Who's salts are you using?
Here's what Brownell's says: "About plugging the bores: DON"T. The govt ran several tests at Rock Island Armory years ago on a series of blued bores as compared to unblued. With this method of gun bluing, it was found that the blued bores gave longer bbl life and better muzzle pressures-very slight of course, but proves the point. Just be SURE and scrub them throughly after blueing to remove all traces of salts. Further: These modern solutions are hard on wood and the heat insside the bbls expands the air and the plugs blow out very easily Dangerous" The caps are Brownell's, not mine. Perhaps your Dad was rust blueing not salts?
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I very much agree with George R... at MSC Gunsmithing School, we blued every friday and was taught from the very first as a safety rule to never plug the bores while "hot caustic blueing". With temps at 292* and nickle steel at over 300* i dont want salts all over me, bad enough when the tanks come to a good roll and a small splatter of salts burn a blister on your skin as it is! I want my bores blued, because bueing is a controled rust process, and after blueing i can control the RUST with oil, a bare bore is at the mercy of outside forces that are harder to control real rusting and pitting. But if your doing a belgium blue with hot water, 212* or less, or using a flame for the heat source, it is recommended to plug the barrels.
Yep, I never blued "plugged" either. Never had an accuracy complaint on anything we blued that wasnt traceable back to things like bedding, forend pressure, etc.
I read quite a few books on bluing back when I started and it was interesting to read about depot maintenance level work. I read about a setup a depot in Singapore had, which pressurized the tanks.
Yep, I had a pair of sneakers that looked like they were attacked with a blackened icepick. I got splashed in the face slightly while lowering some work into the tanks, and didnt know I had a glob of salts above my eyebrow. About ten minutes later I wiped my forehead with the back of my hand and did it *sting*. It really started to eat into me.
Oddly enough, I sorta found bluing a peaceful sort of thing to do. It was harsh enough that people left you alone when you did it. If I wanted to clear the shop of the hangers-on, firing up the tanks did it every time.
I read quite a few books on bluing back when I started and it was interesting to read about depot maintenance level work. I read about a setup a depot in Singapore had, which pressurized the tanks.
Yep, I had a pair of sneakers that looked like they were attacked with a blackened icepick. I got splashed in the face slightly while lowering some work into the tanks, and didnt know I had a glob of salts above my eyebrow. About ten minutes later I wiped my forehead with the back of my hand and did it *sting*. It really started to eat into me.
Oddly enough, I sorta found bluing a peaceful sort of thing to do. It was harsh enough that people left you alone when you did it. If I wanted to clear the shop of the hangers-on, firing up the tanks did it every time.
Dave Haven
New member
Brownell's.
SLOPEMENO: lol, When it came time to blue, there were times when an ass kicking would have been just fine, i hated the start-up, waiting on temps to reach, and so on. But once things started to happen i also found it to be relaxing, someone might come up but one tingling breath through the nose and its by-by.
Brownellsx2
Brownellsx2hot blueing
SRTRAX &SLOPEMENO: lol I never thought about it, but you're right, and it still is fun. I hate to get poetic about hot salt blueing, but I have no life , and it is a quiet (usually) and enjoyable time. I blue every Friday and its the best day of the week for me. The skill and thinking work of polishing is all done, nobody comes near me, and I always feel good when I pull the work out of the tank. I can do without the excitement of splatter, reddish receivers and the heat , but it is one of the most rewarding parts of gunsmithing.
And Dave, if you're really using hot caustic salts and plugging the bbl with rubber plugs, I think I'll stick with the "horse pucky" crowd.
SRTRAX &SLOPEMENO: lol I never thought about it, but you're right, and it still is fun. I hate to get poetic about hot salt blueing, but I have no life
, and it is a quiet (usually) and enjoyable time. I blue every Friday and its the best day of the week for me. The skill and thinking work of polishing is all done, nobody comes near me, and I always feel good when I pull the work out of the tank. I can do without the excitement of splatter, reddish receivers and the heat , but it is one of the most rewarding parts of gunsmithing. And Dave, if you're really using hot caustic salts and plugging the bbl with rubber plugs, I think I'll stick with the "horse pucky" crowd.
...every time I would blue, the shop was never quieter than when I would reach up and turn off that last fan with a hammer (cause I couldnt reach over Doug's bench for fear of impaling myself on a something sharp), and this humid *hush* like a hot wet blanket would roll over the place. The tanks and burners would make the occasional tink as they cooled down. I'd take a step outside and it was now cool and dark, with the stars just becoming visible in the east. I'd take off my apron and hang it on my vise, wash my hands with Comet ('cause I was filthy) and hit the door.
I can still smell that long-gone place. Cigars, bullet lube, BreakFree, Bondo, Beer, and the garbage that someone didnt empty.
I can still smell that long-gone place. Cigars, bullet lube, BreakFree, Bondo, Beer, and the garbage that someone didnt empty.
Gun Bluing formulas
G'day guys,
I guess you have already figured that I am in Australia.
I used to have my own gunsmithing shop some years ago and dissmantled it when I moved to the USA for almost 7 years. Now that we are back in Oz, I want to start up my gunwork again. One of the main things I did was to hot blue barrels and parts. My problem now is that I cannot obtain the chemicals for blueing as my original supplier has disapeared. The new gun laws have made things quite difficult compared to the laws when I left Aust.
Can anyone tell me what the chemical is that is mixed with the caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) to make the formula?
From info I have found on the net, the chemical is Sodium Nitrate. Some have stated it's Potassium Nitrate. Others have suggested it's Amonium Nitrate. Which one is the correct chemical? I have asked around the major gun stores/smiths in the big cities but no-one will give me any info.
Just for the record, I built my own tanks (6" x 6" x 36"), the stands to hold them and the burners to heat them. The gas burners were 34" long made from 1" x 1" RHS and worked perfectly. All this disapeared (plus all my tools, reamers etc.) before we returned to Aust. so now I have to start from scratch.
Any info on the formula would be most appreciated.
Kody
G'day guys,
I guess you have already figured that I am in Australia.
I used to have my own gunsmithing shop some years ago and dissmantled it when I moved to the USA for almost 7 years. Now that we are back in Oz, I want to start up my gunwork again. One of the main things I did was to hot blue barrels and parts. My problem now is that I cannot obtain the chemicals for blueing as my original supplier has disapeared. The new gun laws have made things quite difficult compared to the laws when I left Aust.
Can anyone tell me what the chemical is that is mixed with the caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) to make the formula?
From info I have found on the net, the chemical is Sodium Nitrate. Some have stated it's Potassium Nitrate. Others have suggested it's Amonium Nitrate. Which one is the correct chemical? I have asked around the major gun stores/smiths in the big cities but no-one will give me any info.
Just for the record, I built my own tanks (6" x 6" x 36"), the stands to hold them and the burners to heat them. The gas burners were 34" long made from 1" x 1" RHS and worked perfectly. All this disapeared (plus all my tools, reamers etc.) before we returned to Aust. so now I have to start from scratch.
Any info on the formula would be most appreciated.
Kody