The Marlin Ad that I have in front of me says "Choose Enough Gun". The choices in a carbine lever action are a Model 1895G "Guide Gun" in 45-70 Government with 4 round tubular magazine and a basically identical Model 444P "Outfitter" in 444 Marlin with a 5 round tubular magazine. Talks about being enough gun for elk, moose or grizzly. Well lets consider that our primary concern is grizzly, which do we choose, 4 round mag of 45-70 or 5 round mag of 444 Marlin? And as an aside, is such a lever gun carried with one in the chamber so you have to cock to hammer or chamber empty so you just work the lever?
"Guide Gun" vs "Outfitter"
- Thread starter Monty
- Start date
Rule #1: All firearms are loaded.
Corollary to Rule #1: Do you have air in your spare tire?
Regarding caliber: given the variety of custom bullets and weights for each cartridge, the choice becomes one of personal preference. I chose the .45-70, just because... and no other reason is needed. Ain't options wonderful?
Corollary to Rule #1: Do you have air in your spare tire?
Regarding caliber: given the variety of custom bullets and weights for each cartridge, the choice becomes one of personal preference. I chose the .45-70, just because... and no other reason is needed. Ain't options wonderful?
Hmmmm....I am missing how these rules specifically apply to my question, they seem to conflict each other to my way of thinking. Maybe....
Rule #1: All firearms are loaded. So I should keep the chamber loaded?
Corollary to Rule #1: Do you have air in your spare tire? Don't know. Was last time I checked and if I need it should check before it goes on the car so....don't assume air in the tire or one in the chamber, best to work the lever and be sure.
Or am I missing something.
I am guessing from your response the the calibers are basically equal and interchangable so a prudent person would rather have 5 in the tube than 4 and thus the 444 Marlin?
Looking forward to further responses in this thread.
Rule #1: All firearms are loaded. So I should keep the chamber loaded?
Corollary to Rule #1: Do you have air in your spare tire? Don't know. Was last time I checked and if I need it should check before it goes on the car so....don't assume air in the tire or one in the chamber, best to work the lever and be sure.
Or am I missing something.
I am guessing from your response the the calibers are basically equal and interchangable so a prudent person would rather have 5 in the tube than 4 and thus the 444 Marlin?
Looking forward to further responses in this thread.
curioustype
Inactive
easy. get the bigger cartridge.
heavy .45-70 loads are quite powerful.
I have a 45-70, and reload for it a little.
but no bear experience.
When you're actually hunting, keep the
chamber loaded. *especially* when hunting
dangerous game! (IMHO!)
If a chamber loaded lever action bothers you,
get one of the newer models with the safety.
heavy .45-70 loads are quite powerful.
I have a 45-70, and reload for it a little.
but no bear experience.
When you're actually hunting, keep the
chamber loaded. *especially* when hunting
dangerous game! (IMHO!)
If a chamber loaded lever action bothers you,
get one of the newer models with the safety.
So what is the rational with keeping the chamber loaded? Is it so you don't waste a place to carry a round or is it because it is easier or quicker to cock the hammer than to work the lever? I have very little experience with lever guns but don't figure I would be uncomfortable with hammer down on a loaded chamber. I don't have much use for safeties.
In a bear attack scenario, I doubt that the victim would have time for more than three shots (at least with a major caliber levergun). Bears are very fast and odds are that you and the bear would be surprising each other at close range.
Therefore, I wouldn't worry about having 4 versus 5 rounds in the magazine. I'd choose the .45-70 because it launches bigger bullets and commercially-loaded "penetrator" ammo is available.
Disclaimer: I am neither a lawyer nor a bear, nor do I play one on TV. The closest thing to a bear I've ever shot was a big, brown piece of cardboard.
Therefore, I wouldn't worry about having 4 versus 5 rounds in the magazine. I'd choose the .45-70 because it launches bigger bullets and commercially-loaded "penetrator" ammo is available.
Disclaimer: I am neither a lawyer nor a bear, nor do I play one on TV. The closest thing to a bear I've ever shot was a big, brown piece of cardboard.
The rationale behind the loaded chamber in a hunting situation is less noise and less movement. Throwing the lever is rather loud. Cocking the hammer on a loaded chamber is definitely quieter for most people, though there are ways to be a little quieter when throwing the lever. Also the less movement needed the better, unless you're walking and snap shooting.
The Guide Gun has a hammer block safety that can only be engaged or disengaged with the hammer cocked. Carrying it hammer down on a loaded chamber is a safe option. The rifle comes with an ambidextrous hammer spur that makes it easy to cock while shouldering it. Then you just push the safety button over, and pull the trigger. All told, it takes about a second. The other option is to just carry it with an empty chamber. The time to get the weapon into battery is about the same, but you lose one round of ammo capacity. IMHO, if you can't stop it with 4 rounds of 45-70, you need a bigger gun.
The .444 was introduced as a kind of 'magnum .44 Magnum' during a time when the .45-70 was out of favor with most shooters. Only one bullet weight of light construction was available in factory loads (there has been improvement in this regard since.) The .45-70 'came back' in competition against the .444, by virtue of its greater power in both factory and handloads, better accuracy with heavier bullets, and availability of components for handloading. I don't see the .444 Marlin's extra round capacity as off-setting the .45's superiorities. slabsides
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For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
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For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.