Guidance please

D

doodguy

Inactive
Hi everyone,

I have a springfield armory M1A, and I need some guidance.

How far should this gun shoot accurately?

What is the cheapest scope in the $200 price range you would recommend for say 800m?

Are there any worthwhile upgrades IE New stock to reduce the recoil felt/comfort?

Can I buy a new stock/inexpensive parts to make this look like the socom M1A?

Any guidance is much appreciated. Thank you
 
How far should this gun shoot accurately?
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How far can YOU shoot accurately?;)

It depends on what you are shooting at. If you have a gun that shoots into 8" at 800 yards and you are shooting at a 4" target you will miss 1/2 the time statistically speaking. Of course 800 yards is a very long way away for a .308. Depending on your elevation above sea level and load, your bullet may drop into subsonic before that point. Do you know how to deal with that?

Accuracy is usually much more dependent on the shooter than it is the gun most of the time. That being said, every gun is different (particularly M1As from Springfield:rolleyes:) and you will have to test it and see. You might have a sub MOA rifle (not very likely) or you might have a 4 MOA (more likely) or even an 8 MOA (upper tolerance allowed for the M14) rifle.

What is the cheapest scope in the $200 price range you would recommend for say 800m?
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Ummm..... None. 800m is a LONG WAY to see, and trying to do that with a low glass quality optic is going to give you eye strain fast. Not to mention you will be shooting it on a semiautomatic with a heavy reciprocating action that will probably destroy an optic not designed for it. When it comes to optics, you get what you pay for.

Are there any worthwhile upgrades IE New stock to reduce the recoil felt/comfort?
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There are lots of worthwhile upgrades for the M1A and all of them are VERY expensive. The heavier you make it, the less you will feel the recoil and the harder it will be to use from anything other than the bench. Decide what you want to do with it and adjust.

Can I buy a new stock/inexpensive parts to make this look like the socom M1A?
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Why does it matter what it looks like? Are you after functional improvements or just something to take pictures of and show off to your friends?

What do you want to hang off of it that you feel you need rails for?

For clarification. I owned a Springfield M1A from 1997 to just last year and my brother has 4 of them now in everything from a wood stock up to a EBR Mod 1.

And I am not accurate at 800 yards, I haven't even bothered to try.:p
 
When I shot for the Guard the best 1000 yard score I got were with the M1A and that was with iron sights.

Just take the sucker out and shoot it. It's not about gimicks or scopes.
 
On the scope question, the first thing you have to decide is if you want to work by adjusting the turrets or use a ballistic reticle. Adjusting the turrets is something you do if you shoot known distance and dial in the right number. Ballistic reticles give you MOA or other graduations, and you adjust your overhold on the target.
For 800 m, I would look at nothing cheaper than a Zeiss Conquest or Leupold 7, that target gets real small at that distance.
 
If you have a gun that shoots into 8" at 800 yards and you are shooting at a 4" target you will miss 1/2 the time statistically speaking.
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If shot distribution is consistent throughout a circular target, 100% accuracy on the 8" target would translate to missing 3/4 the time on a 4" target. Surface area is in square inches so a circular target of 8" (4" radius) has a surface area of pi*4^2, while surface area of the 4" target (2" radius) has a surface area of pi*2^2. The larger one has 16*pi square inches to hit, while the smaller one only has 4*pi square inches. You lost 12*pi square inches, or 3/4 the original target ;)

or even an 8 MOA (upper tolerance allowed for the M14) rifle.
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Holy cow, I never expected that after all I've heard about the accuracy of M14s and M1As. Sadly, that would probably be sufficient for me with the way I shoot :rolleyes:
 
Use the scope money to buy some ammo. Practice shooting with the irons at 100yds and work out to longer ranges.

It well take a lot more than a scope to have a accurate 800yd M1A. Cheap scopes and cheap scope mounts do not work out well on these rifles. You should budget about $500 minimum for scope, rings and mount.

Do some reading here.
http://www.m14tfl.com

Read about "unitized gas cylinder" how to "shim gas cylinder" and "dwell time". You well need this knowledge for longer range shooting.
 
The larger one has 16*pi square inches to hit, while the smaller one only has 4*pi square inches. You lost 12*pi square inches, or 3/4 the original target
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You are correct, but that just muddies the issue.:D

Holy cow, I never expected that after all I've heard about the accuracy of M14s and M1As. Sadly, that would probably be sufficient for me with the way I shoot
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You can make them shoot alot better, but it takes time and money and know how.

Competition for the old M1A is still held every year at Camp Perry. Range is 1000 yds.
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Yes it is. And do you know how big those targets are?

X ring 10.00"
10 ring 1 foot 8 inches
9 ring 2 foot 6 inches
8 ring 3 foot 8 inches
7 ring 5 foot diameter
6 ring 6 foot X 6 foot square

You are pretty much shooting at a car.

Not to take away anything at all from the skills of those that can do it. I can't, but most people when they think about shooting a 1000 yards they imagine a much smaller target.

To shoot that far with the precision that people are usually thinking about (like a watermelon) you have to have good optics just to SEE the target not to mention the skills to hit it. Most people are amazed when you just show them how far away 300 yards really is.:D
 
At extended ranges, its not the gun, its not how much money you spend on the scope,

IT's THE SHOOTER, and his ability to practice marksmanship fundamentals and his ability to just wind, mirage, and other enviormental contiditons.

Yes the X-10 ring on the 1000 yard target is 20 inches in diameter. But how many "clean" 1000 yard targets have you see?

Spend the money on those high priced scopes on rounds down range, learning to shoot in the wind.
 
I will go to the range this saturday, zero in at 50 yards and work up in increments of 50 yards both with iron sights and an old simmons scope I have to see how far/well I can do.

If I buy that promag stock, will that absorb some of the shock of the rifle? Or have no effect?

Crow hunter:
I was a sniper/gunner for my unit. With my M-16 I shot 39/40 pop ups ranging from 50 to 300m as a norm iron sights.
I always like my guns to look nice. Don't care about cool looking pictures its just a personal preference thing.
I don't need rails.

madcratebuilder: I would be fine with $500 for a scope. Thank you for that link I am heading there now :)
 
doodguy
If I buy that promag stock, will that absorb some of the shock of the rifle? Or have no effect?
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If you have a standard stock try loading the void under the butt plate with lead shot. The extra weight will soften the recoil.
 
If I buy that promag stock, will that absorb some of the shock of the rifle? Or have no effect?
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If it is heavier it will reduce the felt recoil. Are you having trouble with the recoil now? I have never even heard of that stock before so I don't know about it's quality. Maybe someone else has one.

If you don't need any rails, I wouldn't get a SOCOM stock. (Assuming you are talking about the M1A Socom II, not an EBR Chassis that some SOCOM units use)

I was a sniper/gunner for my unit. With my M-16 I shot 39/40 pop ups ranging from 50 to 300m as a norm iron sights.
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300 yards is just about where stuff starts getting interesting. ;) Up to there you really only need to worry about wind, no hold overs with a standard M-16 sight in.

I would be fine with $500 for a scope. Thank you for that link I am heading there now
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Don't forget to get a good quality mount. This is especially true with the M1a as it doesn't have the best mounting points. My brother has a Sadlak on one of his rifles and he really likes it. He also had a cheap imitation of a Brookfield to start with and it was crap.
 
Spend the money on those high priced scopes on rounds down range, learning to shoot in the wind.
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This is wisdom, listen to it.


What will the gun do? This is a .22 silhouette that I stuck a Birchwood-Casey 3" sticker on and popped at 181 yds with irons.
IMAG0142-1.jpg

Even on a mediocre day, I can keep everything in the 10 ring on an SR target at 200. I'm not a stellar shot, but if you know how to use the irons, they will make you look like a good shot. These rifles will shoot.

Jason
 
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