Group Purchase Info

RedCrosse

New member
Some of us here are thinking about an AK SAR I group purchase (maybe 20), but I was wondering if anyone here could offer any advise, cautions, etc before we started. Any hellish stories of group purchases gone bad? Just wondering.


Some practical problems that I've thought of are

a) financial difficulties with one or more persons (collecting, etc)
b) varying degrees of quality in the firearms -- who gets which one?
c) does a bunch of local people ordering 20 AKs make us look like a militia or anything (not that we'd particularly mind!) - but do we draw more attention to ourselves than necessary?
d) Hidden costs
e) ????


For everyone's info, the price of the firearm and shipping was decreased significantly (in my mind) with this group purchase. Approximately 10 - 15% lower. For our zip code, SAR I ran about 267 including shipping and transfer.
 
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I'd be interested in info on this also... have though about it myself a time or two. Lets keep an eye on it and if we don't get any responses I'll move it to General.

Anyone?
 
I would go over to www.ar15.com and post under their General Dis or the ar15.com LEGP forum there....They just did a massive order of AR's from RRA.

I would think someone there could give you the ups and downs and the ins and outs of such a tranaction.

Good Luck

Karsten
 
I'd like to get one.

I think the key is to get a long-term member of a board that would have enough credibility here to have us send him/her money. Quite a few posters here are FFLs with actual stores, so they may be willing to take orders, ship, and even take credit cards, for a modest fee.

Since you asked, the horror story that comes to mind is that of Nick Van Houte (aka Buyers Club of America, Ruger Forum, Sig Forum, etc.), a moderator on GlockTalk, who took orders for pre-ban mags about a year and a half ago and is now missing with the money and mags. Quite a few GTers got stung in that deal and are currently working with a police detective in Nick's jurisdiction to get him prosecuted and jailed. It sounds like the police are taking this seriously.

Another one is Paul308 on AR-15.COM, also a moderator who made off with thousands of dollars for preban mags he did not deliver. I don't spend much time on that board, so I don't know if there is an organized effort to get this scumbag prosecuted.

Even with all that, I like the idea of group purchases and would take advantage of one if the right person is running it!

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
The LEGP has been going very well at www.AR-15.com . I'd say that over 98% of the folks who bought in have been exceptionally satisfied. Being a RRA owner, I know why. The folks over at www.l1a1.com organized an FAL kit buy, and it turned out poorly. The quality of the kits was less than advertised.

There are two good things about this groups buy you're considering...

#1, www.aimsurplus.com has a great reputation for quality and customer service (that's who I'd the the group purchase through, assuming they were interested).

#2, you're buying new rifles, instead of a used kit like the FALers were.

Some things you're looking for in a main player is someone with 1000 posts or more and some time here. Read some of his/her posts throgh the past and see if the person has any weird tendencies. Another thing is to get an FFL holder...that way you won't be paying much of a middleman charge.
 
AIM is who I contacted about this group deal. The idea right now is to offer this group purchase to close friends who live right in the Bristol TN/VA area (if any TFLers would like to get on board, that would be cool -- email me). I don't think I'm ready to do an internet group purchase unless, like you said, it was very legit.

I'll keep everyone posted with how this goes, because if you can find a few guys in your area to get 20 AKs, it is certainly worth a little time and effort for the savings.
 
I've put together several group purchases much like you describe. The first one was for six or seven SAR-1s, along with an FAL. We got these just before they were banned here in California. I contacted several friends who were at least somewhat interested in guns (some much more than others). I knew them all pretty well, except for one guy who was sort of "a friend of a friend." It turned out fine. I've since put together couple of additional group purchases of Bulgarian Makarovs and PA-63s. Some of these saved me a little money (slightly lower prices and shipping costs), but not a lot over what I'd have paid to just get my own. But I enjoyed helping friends get good deals on guns they never even knew they wanted until I pointed out what good deals they were :) I've found that it is a lot easier to get people interested if (1) there is a law about to ban the gun, and (2) it is a very good deal (Maks for $105, PA-63s for $90).

You did hit on some of the risks. I have always put the guns on my own credit card and paid them off right away, but sometimes it took a few months to get the money from the buyers (not that they were trying to rip me off - they just didn't get around to paying for awhile - sometimes because it took me awhile to figure out and tell them the total cost). If this is a big issue for you, I'd suggest getting the money up front. In my case, at least, holding the gun hostage probably wouldn't have mattered, since some of they guys weren't in any hurry to pick them up anyway.

As far as distributing the guns (which may vary in condition or quality of construction), I have always done this randomly. It is tempting to say that I get first pick, since I'm doing most of the work and paying for them, but I haven't done this. I usually just tell my FFL to assign the guns randomly by serial number to each buyer (without actually looking at the guns). No one has questioned this, but it might be cleaner to have some formula like "lowest serial number to youngest guy" or to draw serial numbers out of a hat or something. I think if I'd let people pick their guns, it would have been sure to create hard feelings.

I do usually tell everything I know about the guns and costs to the buyers by e-mail before the fact (so there are no misunderstandings). I usually throw in a disclaimer to the effect that if we get ripped off somehow (guns not right, costs higher than expected, etc.), we are all agreeing to share the cost. I don't guarantee anything personally except that I'm being honest and taking the same risk they are. I also say that once the guns are randomly distributed, each person is responsible for working out any problems with his particular gun with the vendor or importer (of course, I'd help if I could, but it is ultimately their problem). I tell them approximately what the FFL and related charges will be (usually padded a little so that the actual cost turns out to be a dollar or two less than I'd estimated), and have them pay the FFL directly when they do the paperwork on their guns. They reimburse me for my out-of-pocket cost. So far, no one has ripped me off, or had any real complaints about these deals (at least that I'm aware of).

Finally, I've ordered most of these through Aim Surplus, and been very happy with their service. They did mess up once and sent us one SAR-2 or SAR-3 instead of a SAR-1, but they were very easy to work with and willing to make it right. I've also used J&G Sales a time or two.

I think these group purchases are a good way to go IF you save some significant money AND you think it would be fun to play gun salesman to some of your friends (as I do). I don't think it would be worth the headaches if you are only doing it to save $20. Good luck.

Doug
 
Contact Jen at the FAL Files www.l1a1.com. She's put together two FAL group buys so far. The first was an independent FAL kit buy that hasn't worked out quite as expected. The second buy is for FAL receivers from DS Arms. Its working great.
 
Well if you *were* to do a net deal, I'd likely be interested. That said, I got a buddy down your way who might well be quite interested, I'll ask him.

sounds neat..
-K
 
another wrinkle would be to order them direct from Robinson and get a Limited Edition TFL Vepr

i know a certain Wookie that would be interested

;)
 
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