"Green Bullets"

A

afone1

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The last bullet-producing lead smelter closes its doors on Dec. 31, it will mark a major victory for those who say the lead-based ammunition pollutes the environment, but others warn 'green' bullets will cost more, drive up copper prices and do little to help conservation.

Has anyone else heard anything on these new ammo regulations? I'm sick of the gov't messing everything up.
 
I think this is what folks are NOT getting here.
This is the last "primary lead smelter "
That is a smelter that takes raw ore and smelts it to a usable state.
We have 100 of millions of tons of secondary lead in this country that gets smelted every day at secondary smelters.
Lead comes into this country from other sources and will eventually end up in the secondary market.
Also secondary smelters are capable of smelting raw ore but it requires more energy and creates more emissions.
I don't see there being any kind of shortage for a very long time if ever.
 
Article on Fox News site about the green bullets and smelter shutting down seems to suggest the demise of lead bullets. Interesting article but may be misleading information.
 
There has been a push for "GREEN" bullets going on for years now.
Just like lead shot for shotguns.
CA and a few other states may outlaw lead but I doubt many will.
I do know many bullet manufacturers are doing R&D on green bullets.
It just makes sense in the long run.
 
Thanks for the info madmo44mag. Maybe that Fox news article is misleading. They said bullets will be made out of copper, raising the price of ammo. Also creating a shortage and higher price of all copper based products.
 
Two points...

madmo44mag said:
This is the last "primary lead smelter "
That is a smelter that takes raw ore and smelts it to a usable state.
We have 100 of millions of tons of secondary lead in this country that gets smelted every day at secondary smelters.
Lead comes into this country from other sources and will eventually end up in the secondary market.
Click to expand...
You missed one important piece of information: this isn't "The" last primary lead smelter- it's the last primary lead smelter in the USA.

Those "other sources" supplying lead to American ammo producers include primary smelters in other countries.

Although the demise of the last primary smelter in the USA is unfortunate on some levels, it's my understanding from other articles on the topic that the proverbial writing has been on the wall for this smelter for some time, due to chronic environmental and management problems. IOW this was no great surprise to anyone in the industry.
madmo44mag said:
CA and a few other states may outlaw lead but I doubt many will.
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FWIW the stated reason for the new law in California is to prevent lead from being ingested by endangered California Condors and killing them. The scientific data behind this conclusion is disputed, including by many conservationists, and these birds aren't found in very many other states anyways (AZ and UT only).
 
Maybe that Fox news article is misleading.
Click to expand...

Sadly, in the world we live in, the primary job of all the news stations to to sell advertizing. Thus they skew every story to make it sound so dramatic that you tune in, and hopefully watch a few adds.
There's maybe 10-15 minutes of worthwhile "new" news on an average day, so they have to fill the other 23+ hours of broadcast time with exaggerated dreck.

"You're children/rights/way-of-life are all in terrible danger! To learn how to save them, stay tuned until after these messages".
 
That Fox News article takes two completely unrelated items, puts them together, and draws a completely incorrect conclusion.

As the NRA has said, the closure of the Doe Run lead smelter plant won't hurt a thing. It really won't be missed (we've discussed this before).

Regarding the CA lead ammo for hunting ban, that's not even close to being related besides dealing with the same element. I'm not sure that most state or local governments will have the ability to ban lead ammo for practice- even outdoor ranges tend to have good remediation practices (mining the berm for lead is a significant source of revenue for them) and indoor ranges spend quite a bit of money on air handlers/cleaners. If other states follow suit with a ban on lead ammo for hunting, I'm still not sure how much it will affect things... while the price of hunting ammo will go up there's just not a ton of people out there doing thousands of rounds of hunting every year. The bigger issue would be the weight difference between all copper or other constructions and the current lead core rounds.

I suspect that the news agency is just attempting to rile people up in order to boost ratings/pageviews. They can't be intending to inform... the signal to noise ratio is way too poor for that to happen.
 
Fox1 - fun article!
Snyper - I got a chuckle out of your comment.
Now I've got to figure out which choke to for sunflowers, which one for daisies etc.
 
thing is, most common source for recycled lead is CHINA. just put stringent trade embargo on them, and no more cheap lead for bullets.
 
madmo44mag wrote:
It just makes sense in the long run.
Click to expand...
You will have to explain that to me. It doesn't make sense, considering (a) there is so much misinformation about lead in the news media, popular entertainment, govermnment standards and publications, and even "scientific" journals; (b) the vast majority of people, including those on this website, have no earthly idea about the real effects of elemental lead on physiology; (c) the EPA which closed down the smelter is an agency that has run amok; and (d) lead is an extremely important industrial element.
 
spacecoast said:
Here's the Fox News link - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/2...-regulations-bans-force-switch-to-green-ammo/ which mentions the Army phase-out of lead by 2018.

I have it from a very good source that the Army has been using the lead-free M855A1 bullets in Afghanistan for over a year (at least).
Click to expand...

That is what a guy I know who is there now says. They are issued the bronze tip ammo.

Looks to me this should be great ammo like a military version of a Barnes TTSX. I wonder how much the Army really wanted green at this price versus an excuse for more effective ammo. Supposedly it is higher velocity. Is the bullet lighter than 62 gr?
 
Copper is about 79% as heavy as lead, meaning that a copper bullet the same size as a 230 gr. lead bullet (.45 ACP) would weigh about 180 grains. Not bad in theory, but the copper in the lighter bullet would cost about 2.5 times as much as the lead in the heavier bullet at today's prices (8.2 cents vs. 3.3 cents using lead at $1/lb and copper at $3.25/lb).

Not only that, but the melting point of copper is nearly 2000F as compared to 650F for lead, meaning that the fabrication of copper bullets is also more difficult and expensive. If lead was banned or in very limited supply, undoubtedly many amateur bullet casters would be forced to stop, and reloading (not to mention shooting) would become a more expensive pastime.
 
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