Grab your barfbag - this is disgusting

A

Amish Gangsta

Inactive
The following is a reference for anti-gun types to use when debating for gun control. Be warned..it'll make you sick!
#: 908764 S8/LIBERTY [OUTFORUM] 01-Jan-96 15:08:43 Sb: Know
Thine Enemy Fm: Brenda C. Jinkins 70762,154 To: All

This HCI guide was found on the Internet:
Forwarded:
------------------------------------------------------------

A Quick Guide to Arguing with the Gun Zealots

When you argue with the anti-gun control forces remember to
press these key issues: Strategic points to remember for
public speaking:

Today's criminals and gangbangers outgun our cops.

Our children are being threatened, murdered and cut down in
the street.

There is no sporting purpose for a semi-automatic firearm.

The 2nd Amendment does not protect the right to own military
or semi-automatic arms.

With tens of millions of people owning guns, the potential
for lawlessness and gun massacres increases ten fold each
year.

The current crime wave can touch any community, and social
strata.

Handguns have no purposes other than killing people.

Households with guns are 43 times more likely to have their
guns used against a family member than those households
without guns.

Self defense is no legitimate reason for owning a gun (see
Above Point).

The vast majority of crime guns are bought legally.

Most Gun dealers sell thousands of guns illegally to gangs
and criminals every day.

Repeat these facts over and over and eventually the public
will begin to see the light. They cannot casually dismiss
these devastating facts any more. They will be remembering
our arguments long after the echoes of the NRA's arguments
have vanished. Remember that they are defending the right to
murder in our country. This alone makes them look brutish and
Neanderthals. Offer our people another alternative. An
alternative to violence and machismo. It is becoming less and
less politically correct to own a gun. Ultimately society as
a whole will look upon gun owners with dread and disdain.

Other Pressing Points:

Military Assault Weapons: The confusion by the general public
between semi-automatic weapons can work in our favor.
Constantly dropping the words - submachine gun, fully
automatic, machine gun, military weapon, high tech killing
machine are good debater's tricks to instill a sense of dread
over these weapons. Ultimately people will learn to dread
these weapons just like chemical warfare weapons and toxic
waste dumps.

Semi-Automatic Weapons: Remember that there is no place for
any kind of semi-auto weapon in a safe society regardless of
how it looks, since many so called sport rifles can be
easily converted to a military configuration. Thus all
semi-automatic weapons are capable of being called assault
weapons . Never let up on this fact.

Endangerment of Children: It is difficult for the Gun groups
to counter arguments which call attention to the
endangerment of children. Making the opposition look callous
creates an image of brutality and indifference to the
audience. Keep this point in the fore front of any public
argument. Enough is enough: Americans are sick and tired of
the violence that is infecting our society. Press forth this
point and other points of a related nature. It is time for
action, to take back our streets from crime. If we don't take
action now, this crimewave will engulf America. Again be sure
to press the point that the Gun Lobby opposes action to
counter this crime wave.

Assault Weapons - the Choice of Criminals: Assault weapons
are the weapons of choice for gangs, mentally deficient
individuals, and criminals across the board. The Gun Lobby
argues that anyone at anytime should have the right to buy
and own these weapons of mass destruction.

Too Many Guns in the U.S.: There are over 200 million guns in
America today. One for every man, woman, and child in the
United States. Push the fact that each one of these killing
machines poses a grave threat to our population.

Assault Ammunition: The ammunition for military arms are more
powerful and more devastating than normal ammunition. This
type of ammo if not banned, should have the delivery systems
(aka assault weapons) banned at least.

Points of Victory in the past ten years: Defeating the NRA's
attempt to gut the ban on interstate handgun sales.
Defeating the NRA s protection of Cop Killer Bullets.
Defeating the NRA's protection of Plastic, Undetectable
handguns. Winning a ban on Saturday Night Specials in
Maryland. Winning bans on Assault Weapons in states and
cities throughout the U.S. Also remember to make good use of
HCI's prepared 10 and 20 minute sample speeches available in
the future. These speeches can be modified to fit a variety
of circumstances.

The Fraud of the Second Amendment and the Gun Lobby's Big
Lie: The following is our current flyer on the NRA's Fraud
concerning and meaning and interpretation of the Second
Amendment. Remember to read the arguments about the Second
Amendment and our fact sheets on Children & Guns, Firearms &
Youth Suicides, and our upcoming Fact Sheet on the Myth of
using a Gun in Self Defense. Be sure to familiarize yourself
with the S.T.A.R. program and push not only for its
implementation but also of new materials which will address
the Gun Lobby's Myth about the Second Amendment.

"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of
a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
shall not be infringed."

The Second Amendment: Fraud and Fact Four Basic Reasons Why
The Second Amendment Permits Gun Control

1. FRAUD:
The Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees
each individual the unlimited right to own and use guns for hunting,
self-protection, target shooting or other individual pursuits.
1. FACT:
Although the gun lobby, led by the National Rifle Association,
literally spends millions of dollars each year promoting this false
claim, the truth is the federal courts have unanimously held that
the right to keep and bear arms is limited to participation in an
organized militia...that the Second Amendment does not guarantee
the right of individuals to own and to carry arms.

2. FRAUD:
Because the Second Amendment guarantees Americans
the right to bear arms, the government cannot forbid
Americans to own firearms, such as handguns, or even assault
weapons.
2. FACT:
No federal court in history has ever
overturned a gun control law on Second Amendment grounds. To
the contrary, the courts have held that this amendment does
not prohibit Congress from regulating the interstate sale of
weapons, nor does it prevent the states from regulating the
use and sale of firearms as they see fit.

3. FRAUD:
Because it contains the phrase, "the right of the
people to keep and bear arms," the Second Amendment obviously
meant to confer an individual right to own and use firearms.
3. FACT:
During colonial days, Americans held a great distrust
of standing armies and, in order to get the Constitution ratified, the
framers had to include a Bill of Rights provision to protect
state militias from federal encroachment. Thus "of the
people" refers to the right of the people to participate in
organized state militias, free from interference by the
federal government.

4. FRAUD:
A "well-regulated militia" refers to those persons who
live within the boundaries of any given state, and that's why each
citizen of a state retains a fundamental right to keep and bear arms .

4. FACT:
The term "well-regulated militia" has been consistently
viewed by the federal courts as the active, organized militia of each
state. Moreover, the U.S. Supreme Court has twice held that
the National Guard is the modern day equivalent of a state
militia. Of course, the National Guard does not use
privately owned firearms at all.

-----------------------------------------------------

Ok, that's it..it's over. If you want a copy of your own, it can be found here: http://www.netside.com/~lcoble/2ndamend/hci_args.txt
 
"Households with guns are 43 times more likely to have their
guns used against a family member than those households
without guns."

That is interesteing by itself. People that own a gun are more likely to have it used against them than someone that does not own a gun. Well duh! If you don't own something, then what you don't own can't be used against you. If I don't own a car, then no one can steal my car. But, if you own a gun, you can protect yourself.
Not only that, but that "fact" has been disproven many times wince 1992 when it was concocted.


"Military Assault Weapons: The confusion by the general public
between semi-automatic weapons can work in our favor.
Constantly dropping the words - submachine gun, fully
automatic, machine gun, military weapon, high tech killing
machine are good debater's tricks to instill a sense of dread
over these weapons. Ultimately people will learn to dread
these weapons just like chemical warfare weapons and toxic
waste dumps."

WOW!!! My jaw dropped when I read this! I cant believe that they would actually print the fact that they PURPOSELY USE disinformation to fool the public and instill fear where it is not needed. I always thought they were just uninformed and stupid, so they mixed up the terms. These people are vindictive *******s that are mis-using terms to purposely lie to the public, and even teaching their debators to do this. I am aghast.

"Endangerment of Children: It is difficult for the Gun groups
to counter arguments which call attention to the
endangerment of children. Making the opposition look callous
creates an image of brutality and indifference to the
audience. Keep this point in the fore front of any public
argument."

Sheesh, they really use this one to death.



The parts on the 2nd Amendment sound just like the "news article" I saw by Dan Rather on CBS. Hmmm....I wonder if he read this pamphlet?

[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited August 04, 1999).]
 
Their followers are "uninformed and stupid", not them. Remember if you tell a lie enough times, people will begin to believe it is factual. Propaganda is the fertilizer that grows their ideology in society.

If it is to their advantage, they'd tell the public anything, regardless of its reality.

So many people I confront with the "assualt weapon" issue actually believe that an "assault weapon" (as described in the media) is in fact a fully automatic weapon. How do you think they concluded that?

HCI really stands for "Home Classes for the Ignorant".
 
>Self defense is no legitimate reason for >owning a gun

What????? If the right of the individual to defend onesself is taken away, who will do it? There was a rap song concerning the response time of police, a lyric goes:
"get up, get down, 911's a joke in your town"

I get in debats often with HCI incline people and when I ask them who will defend them they say the police, of course. When asked how would you stop a madman threatening their children, they actually say "I don't know."
I even once had a fellow tell me that he would rather die than use a firearm in defense of his life or the life of his family. Since he is a neighbor, I simply said "I will remember that before I put my life on the line defending YOU!."

"An armed population are citizens, unarmed population are subjects."

just my two cents worth.


------------------
Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizona territory
 
Sigh. More of the same inane drivel from the anti's. I guess they have to have pamphlets telling their supporters how to argue since they can't think for themselves and don't have any facts on their side, just a lot of feel-good emotional BS.

Joe, you know a real loon. His aversion to guns aside, anybody that wouldn't protect their family shouldn't be a parent or a spouse. Even ants fight for their society, any animal will protects its young. Something's defective there - or he was just making an emotional arguement because he thinks "duhhh - guns bad. Bad people use guns. Me not bad, me no use gun..". I always wonder about these people who claim they place no worth on the lives of themselves and their families - when push came to shove, what would they do?

------------------
Beginner barbarians probably had the idea that every house they broke into would be full of untouched loot and frightened, unarmed victims. It just doesn't work that way, my friend.
 
Whew! I just got back from the ranch, and did not see nearly this much BS! If I can figure out a way to sprinkle this on the petunias, I'll put Miracle Grow out of business. I'll work on it, and let ya'll know what I come up with. So much crap, so little time. Ya'll know most of this is crap, so I'll just harp on a few points.

"The 2nd Amendment does not protect the right to own military or semi-automatic arms."

Ummm, wrong! That's EXACTLY what the second ammendment protects, not the right to hunt, target shoot, or anything else. It's one of the "Checks and Balances" of our society. ONLY when the populace has more power than the government is the populace truly free, and in control. Unfortunately, sometimes power has to be ugly.

"With tens of millions of people owning guns, the potential
for lawlessness and gun massacres increases ten fold each
year."

Really now, tenfold each year? That would mean that in 1999, there would be 10 BILLION (10 to the 10th power) times as much "potential for lawlessness and gun massacres" than in 1989. Really? Learn some math, then get back to me.

"The current crime wave can touch any community, and social
strata."

No SH!T, that's exactly why I have 'em

"Self defense is no legitimate reason for owning a gun (see
Above Point)."

This ones almost funny. If your life ain't worth fighting to defend, then I'm forced to agree.

"Most Gun dealers sell thousands of guns illegally to gangs
and criminals every day"

Then I'm in the wrong business

Glad to see them owning up to deliberately distorting the facts. Their primary weapons are all bogus!

"Assault Ammunition: The ammunition for military arms are more
powerful and more devastating than normal ammunition. This
type of ammo if not banned, should have the delivery systems
(aka assault weapons) banned at least."

IMHO I don't own any guns that use current military ammo (.223, 9mm, 7.62x39, etc.) specifically because they lack power. Normal (I'm assuming this means commercial non-military) ammo is generally much more powerful. (This doesn't mean I won't be getting some some day, I just don't have any right now. :))







------------------
"I am convinced that we can do to guns what we've done to drugs: create a multi-billion dollar underground market over which we have absolutely no control."

George L. Roman

"The U.S. Constitution may be flawed, but it's a whole lot better than what we have now."

"If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we put Clinton there?"

-Anonymous
 
All of this has been part of the gun control agenda for years. It is a little surprising that they have allowed it to be available to the public.

There is more they have not revealed here but are already using, like the "sniper assassination rifle" (any rifle with a scope sight or any rifle to which a scope sight can be attached, that is, all rifles); the "street sweeper gun that fires 400 bullets with a single pull of the trigger" (any shotgun); and concealable, deadly Saturday Night Special (any handgun).

Get the picture? Thought you would.

Also on their future ban list - any object that resembles a firearm or could be mistaken for such (hairdryers); camo clothing; military boots belts, or accessories; and publications that "extol the gun". Also to be banned are any gatherings of more than three people without a Government license; any opposition to the gun control agenda; and any use of the mail, the telephone, the internet, or the news media to undermine the gun control effort.

Sarah and Bill are already working on all of the above.

Jim
 
"Assault Ammunition: The ammunition for military arms are more
powerful and more devastating than normal ammunition. This
type of ammo if not banned, should have the delivery systems
(aka assault weapons) banned at least."


uh i thought that FMJ was less lethal than a hunting round. Didn't NATO make hollow point ammo a war crime?

heres the mother load of all anti crap: http://www.rkba.org/antis/

dZ
 
http://www.rkba.org/antis/hci-master

_What is pending now and can be law in 1994!_

* Ban of all clips holding over 6 bullets

* Ban on all semiautos which can fire more than 6 bullets without
reloading.

* Ban of possession of parts to convert arms into military
configuration

* Ban on all pump shotguns capable of being converted to over 5
shots without reloading

* Banning of all machine guns, destructive devices, short shotguns/
rifles, assault weapons, Saturday Night Specials and Non-Sporting
Ammunition.

* Arsenal Licensing (for possession of multiple guns and large
amounts of ammunition)

* Elimination of the Dept. of Civilian Marksmanship, long
considered a sacred cow and a dinosaur from the Cold war years
(Thank you President Clinton!!!)

* Ban on possession of a firearm within a home located within 1000
feet of a schoolyard.

* Ban on all realistic replicas/toy guns or non-firearms capable of
being rendered realistic

* The right of victims of gun violence to sue manufacturers and
dealers to be affirmed and perhaps, aided with money from
government programs.

* Taxes on ammo, Dealers licenses & guns to offset the medical costs
to society.

and . .

* the eventual ban of all semi-automatics (regardless of when made or
what caliber)

_What was only a dream ten years ago can be reality as early as this
year!!!_

After the meeting, the following ideas were the result of a
brainstorming session to guide the focus of gun control initiatives
over the next five years. These may not be politically feasible
ideas for 1994, but we are confident that with continued pressure we
can achieve most if not all of these goals within the next five
years. The following list is condensed from our meeting in which
we considered the best ideas for public safety expansion. The time
is right for action.

_Five year Plan:_
_Licenses:_

1 National Licensing of all Handgun purchases
This is at the top of our list, however, the political climate may
be right to initiate this step immediately. Please refer to our
memo outlining our ideas on how this should be executed.

2 License for Rifle and Shotguns
We should take our cues from Great Britain. Strict licensing
should be mandatory for all firearms, whether handguns or not.

3 State Licenses for ownership of firearms
We want to take a workable idea from Great Britain, whereas, we
should require the states to issue strict licenses for possession
and require the licenses to be signed by at least three public
officials - i.e. the police chief, the city attorney and the mayor,
for example, to eliminate ownership by dangerous individuals. It
is reasonable to require that all individuals must prove to the
signers that they require a firearm. This should be attached to
any legislation required [sic] purchasers to show a need for a firearm.

4 Reduction of the number of guns to require an Arsenal license
Right now the proposed Arsenal licenses which Senator Feinstein
should be pushing for, requires an "Arsenal License" for those
people who feel they need more than 20 guns and 1000 rounds of
ammunition. We feel that number is too generous, due to the fact
that any number of guns constitutes a grave threat to the safety
of the community, we suggest strongly that this license limit
be reduced to possession greater than 5 guns and 250 rounds of
ammunition.

5 Arsenal License Fees
It is not unreasonable to require a yearly fee for an Arsenal
license to be at least $300.00, with a cap of $1000.00. The money
collected can be used to defray the immense medical costs directly
attributed to these deadly weapons.

6 Limits on Arsenal Licensing
No Arsenal Licensing to be permitted in counties with populations
of more than 200,000.

7 Requirement of Federally Approved Storage Safes for all guns
We should follow Great Britain's lead on this. All licensed
gunowners should be required to have a storage safe which meets
minimum federally mandated requirements. This step would reduce
the tragic accidents which claim the lives of tens of thousands
of children a year and make it more difficult for burglars to
steal the guns.

8 Inspection License
Another good revenue source would be mandatory inspection
licensing of all safes. Each safe would be registered with a
specific serial number and the serial numbers and types of weapons
stored should be on file with federal and state authorities.
Since unannounced inspectors can insure that all declared weapons
are being properly stored, all safe licenses should have an
additional yearly fee to offset the cost of these spot inspections.

_Public Safety Regulations:_

9 Ban on Manufacturing in counties with a population of more than
200,000
Guns are being built all the time and the number of licensed
manufacturers are too great to justify the threat to public safety.
This is a small step to reduce the number of these shops where
anything, even machine guns, are being built every day.

10 Banning all military style firearms
The Pending National ban on all Assault Weapons, based on a point
system can be expanded to eventually cover any firearm with a
remotely military appearance. We feel that this aggressive
appearance appeals to the type of dangerous individuals who are a
definite threat to public safety. We hope that this point system
can eventually be expanded to high powered air guns and "paint
ball" weapons, which can inflict great damage, and with a little
effort can be converted to real guns.

11 Banning of any Machine Gun Parts or parts which can be used in
a Machine Gun.
Periodicals such as "The ShotGun News" particularly cater to
individuals which wish to build illegal machine guns. If Senator
Feinstein's courageous section of the crime bill is successful
in banning all machine guns, except for police and military, then
there would be no legitimate need for Machine Gun parts except to
build illegal weapons.

12 Banning the carrying a firearm [sic] anywhere but home or target
range or in transit from one to the other.
We should institute a federal mandate to the states to strictly
regulate the carrying of firearms.

13 Banning replacement parts (mfg, sale, possession, transfer,
installation) except barrel, trigger group.
Thousands of people are building illegal weapons every day. We
can put a dent in this by banning parts and parts kits, except
those items like the barrel and trigger group, which are most
likely to wear out due to use.

14 Elimination of the Curio Relic [sic] list
A gun is a gun. Even an old gun can kill people. This is a
loop hole in federal law which has allowed thousands of
dangerous weapons to be distributed unchecked. This regulation,
if enacted, would automatically eliminate the need for a Curio or
relic collector's license. All handguns, rifles and shotguns would
fall under the same category as their modern counterparts.

15 Control of Ammunition belonging to Certain Surplus Firearms
Senator Moynihan has already proposed a tax or ban on .22LR, 32
acp, 25 acp and 9mm ammo, however, it has been pointed out to us
that there is an extreme proliferation of high powered surplus rifles
(i.e. the Mosin-Nagant series and the Enfield series) in which the
wholesale prices are as low as $45-$75. We suggest that to control
the proliferation of violence associated with the large numbers of
these types of weapons entering this country that we ban the
importation of their ammunition, 7.64x54R [sic] and .303 R surplus
ammunition.

16 Eventual Ban of Handgun Possession
This may be closer to reality than many of us think. Handguns are
becoming increasingly unpopular and we think that within five years
we can enact a total ban on possession at the federal level.

17 Banning of Any ammo that fits military guns (post 1945)
With the proliferation of high powered weapons, including semi-
automatics and automatics from World War II, we suggest following
the lead of Mexico, by prohibiting the sale, manufacture, possession
or transfer of any caliber fitting a military firearm in service
with a recognized military force after 1945.


_Ammunition and Explosives:_

18 Banning of any quantity of smokeless powder or black powder which
would constitute more than the equivalent of 100 rounds of
ammunition.
With the bombing the World Trade Center, it has been made clear
that we must control the amount of explosive materials in public
hands. It is arguable that no [sic] has any real need to have so
much dangerous material on hand.

19 Ban on the possession of explosive powders of more than 1 kilogram
at any one time.
Gun nuts are notorious for circumventing the intent of the law, so
we can reinforce the above proposed regulation with this additional
notation. This additional language can be useful in preventing
"bomb-maker" hobbyists and other dangerous individuals.

20 Banning of High Powered Ammo or Wounding ammo
In addition to the banning of military calibers, there is a
plethora of dangerous rounds which are too high powered for sporting
use. This includes the highest calibers of pistol and rifle
ammunition (of note are the monster calibers for rifles and pistols,
like the .50 caliber Desert Eagle Bullet). We should not forget
the lessons learned with the insidious Black Talon Ammo. Hollow
points, Glaser killing rounds and other types of ammunition design
[sic] specifically for maiming should be prohibited.

21 A National License for Ammunition
This is an idea whose time has come. We should look at a Federal
License for purchasing of ammunition of all kinds. A special form
should be forwarded to a new federal office to track those who are
purchasing too much ammunition. Remember that a gun is useless
without ammunition.

22 Banning or strict licensing of all re-loading components
Ammunition regulation laws can be regularly bypassed by home loaders,
creating an underground cottage industry of ammo manufacture.
Possession or purchase of re-loading materials and machines should
be restricted and those who wish to use specially loaded ammunition
can go to a federally licensed 're-loader'.

23 National Registration of ammunition or ammo buyers
Fees collected from the national licenses should go towards a
nationwide database of ammo buyers, with a possible background check
to eliminate the purchase of dangerous ammo by felons or mental
patients.

24 Requirement of special storage safe for ammunition and licensing
Like the storage safe for guns, there should be a national
requirement for special safes to store ammo. These safes should
be tamper proof and fireproof and be registered themselves so that
on the spot inspections can be held. Again, the costs for these
inspections can be absorbed by the license fees.


_Gun Ranges:_

25 Restricting Gun Ranges to counties with populations less than 200,000
The obvious threat to public safety of shooting ranges and stray
bullets has been lost on many states and counties. We can initiate
a federal mandate or incentives to get states to prohibit any kind of
shooting range within a county with a population of more than
200,000.

26 Special Licensing of ranges
Those ranges which conform to the previous requirement should get
special licensing above and beyond that which is required now.
Additional [sic] each existing or new shooting range must get in writing
the permission of all property owners within a radius of seven miles.

27 Special Range Tax to visitors
Additional revenue can be a surtax on ranges, requiring the
collection of a minimum of $85.00 per visit per person. This can
be in addition to required membership fees, upon which the state
and local governments get a sizeable portion, to help defray the
immense cost of gun violence.

28 Waiting period for rentals on pistol ranges
It has been suggested in the past that felons can acquire pistols
and other automatic weapons without a background check by renting
a gun on a target range. Deranged individuals are basically
being given a license to 'practice hunting humans' at these so
called 'sporting ranges'. We think that a national waiting period
for gun rentals is yet another idea whose time has come.


_Activities which promote Gun Violence_

29 Banning Gun Shows
Illegal transfers and the sales of assault weapons and submachine
guns is a common event at these so called gun shows. A huge dent
can be made in the illegal trafficking of weapons by banning these
shows altogether.

30 Banning of military reenactments
The questionable "Historical" value of these events has escaped
public scrutiny for too long. Many of these so called historical
events are mere excuses for gun nuts to blast the countryside with
automatic weapons. What is to keep them from loading live bullets
and having those stray bullets kill innocent children? What lives
in the future will be lost due to this paramilitary training going
on right under our noses? We propose the prohibition of
Survivalist/paramilitary, World War I and World War II and Civil
War Re-enactments on federal land, and hope to encourage the states
to prohibit them from state and county lands as well.

31 Making unlawful the assembly of more than 4 _armed_ individuals who
are not peace offers [sic] or military
Since most hunting parties consist of four, we recognize the need
to eliminate the currently legal assembly of shooters for
paramilitary training on private lands. This is just one good
suggestion for our elimination of the "gun culture" from the
mainstream.

32 Begin to curb hunting on all public lands
Blood sports are an anathema to a civilized society, however, it has
been a political reality that the hunters and their ilk have too
strong of a stranglehold on Congress. We feel that the impending
defeat of high tech assault "killing machines" will open the door
to other restrictions. With the diminishing number of hunters, we feel
that perhaps in five years we can open up much more of our country
to campers and hikers, and eliminate the threat to families out
camping , by looking at much more restriction as to what parcels
of land will allow hunting. This will not infringe on sportsmen's
right [sic] to hunt on private land.

33 Making Gun Owners Records and Photos matter of public record
We would have to assemble a legal team, in order to investigate the
balance of the right to privacy and the right to safeguard the public.
We fully endorse the photographing and fingerprinting of all gun
owners, however, these records are usually relegated to law
enforcement use only. We think that it would be a good idea to make
these records public, so that the communities can have the knowledge
of who poses a danger to their community before disaster strikes.
We realize that this proposal would probably be controversial, thus
a long public affairs campaign would have to be initiated in order
to build public support and ease the transition of such an idea.
We feel that this idea has merit, and can be justified via the past
publication of the names of water wasters during drought,
customers for prostitution, and deadbeat parents who are delinquent
on child support.

34 Random Police Checks for Weapons (like sobriety checkpoints)
This idea was floated before in California in 1989, where some
thought it would be a great deterrent to gang crime for
police to do sweeps for gang weapons. Right now this idea may have
some resistance, however, the political climate can become right
to initiate these random vehicle stop and checks at all levels
and in all types of neighborhoods. If we continue to maintain
the pressure we can make this a reality.


The Next Fifteen Years:

With all that is going on, who knows what is possible in the next
fifteen years? With murders in the streets, and the public fed up,
and the once mighty thugs of the Gun Lobby whimpering in impotence
we have an opportunity to change the face of America for the better!
Previously we thought that it would take at least a century to
eliminate dangerous weapons and guns from the public hands, but now
with allies in the White House and Congress, we can accelerate this
trend, and make the barbaric NRA extinct!!! Here are some ideas to
consider for the long term:

_Banning of military acoutrements_ [sic]
Essential to the Neanderthal gun culture are the typical military
clothing, camouflage, pouches, and gear, boots and other combat
gear. They euphemistically refer to this as 'militaria'.
Elimination of the future sale of these items will cripple the
culture of violence well into the 21st century.

_Stricter guidelines for violence in television and the movies_
We should look at the possibility of victims of violence initiated
by copying an act on television and the movie or video screen, suing
the makers of such shows for compensation to their suffering. If the
industry cannot regulate itself, we may have to eventually look at an
independent branch of government, to determine which scenes cause
more harm than good to the public and regulate the numbers of violent
acts portrayed.

_The total Elimination of arms from Society_
We cannot survive into the 21st century unless we remember the need
to expand our wave to new thinking to the total disarmament of
America. With much of the public disarmed we can become more like
Great Britain, where we can also eliminate the need for much of our
police to be armed. This would take a long time, however, a
concerted public relations campaign can pressure local law
enforcement to give up their arms, when the time comes. Weapons,
would be still available to special units like SWAT or the military.

_Control of Dangerous literature (Bomb making, machinegun conversions,
etc.)_
Too much irresponsible material is purportedly covered by the 1st
amendment, however, the time will come when our nation has to agree
that some literature does not belong in a safe society, like
instruction manuals on how to kill, or how to make homemade
explosives, or nuclear bombs. We must realize that there can be
such as thing as too much freedom where such literature poses a
serious threat to the public safety.

1994 sounds the death knell for the bully tactics of the NRA and
the culture of violence in America!!

We are pressing on all fronts and much of this can become reality
sooner than we expect. With the loss of power and clout of the NRA
and their various smaller crony organizations crumbling to dust,
we can eliminate a 200 year old license to murder into history, and
enter the 21st century a safer place for our children and our
children's children.
 
Ow... Ouch... Migrane... pain - in my right eye... have to go lay... down...

This thread hurts my brain...

------------------
Every man Dies.
Not Every Man Truely Lives...
FREEDOM!

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
read the whole master plan @ http://www.rkba.org/antis/hci-master

it includes a section on licensing:
Year 1 to 2:
Program can begin at a relatively low cost to discourage non-compliance:
_Suggested Fee Schedule:_ _$50 - $75 annual fee_

Year 3 to 4:
Fees would be raised to reflect the cost of enforcement and discourage new
ownership:
_Suggested Fee Schedule:_ _$150 - $250 annual fee_

Year 5 to 8:
If private ownership has not been prohibited by this time then fees can be
gradually increased to discourage private ownership:
_Suggested Fee Schedule:_ _$550 - $625 annual fee_

b) Suggested penalties for non-compliance with licensing:
(Penalties would have to be formally outlined by state and federal lawmakers)
(a) Failure to acquire license
$1,000/6 mos in jail and revocation of ability to own firearms
(b) Failure to maintain license
$5,000/12 mos in jail and revocation of ability to own firearms
(c) Failure to turn over guns for destruction after lapse of license
$15,000/18 mos in jail and revocation of ability to own firearms

Failure to re-new license or notify issuing authority of change of status
would be considered a _felony_. All firearms own [sic] would be then considered
contraband and could then be confiscated. _State or local law enforcement
authorities would be prohibited from retaining or re-selling any confiscated
firearm_. A record of destruction would have to be issued via common carrier
to the federal government not later than 60 days after confiscation.
 
There are times I wish i was smart enough to be a hacker. Wouldn't it be fun to post a rebuttal to this on HCI's own website! Ha Ha!

So much misinformation. Unfortunately, we've seen how gullible the public is, and how susceptible to brainwashing. Madison Ave is the best example.

It's important for each and every one of us to be able to cooly, calmly rebut each one of these phony facts whenever the opportunity arises. Beat them at their own game.
 
Danger Dave,

Yep, my neighbor is a piece of work. At least he is harmless in the fact that he will not vote. Too much acid from the '60's and '70's.
I show my neighbor a firearm that I own every now and then to watch him twitch. ;-)

The funny thing is his wife wants a gun for the house. My wife sneaks her out once and a while to a local range and they tear things up. We almost bought her a Ruger P90 for Christmas last year. But she told my wife that he told her he would leave her if she brought a gun in the house. Go figure.

------------------
Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizona territory
 
Joe...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But she told my wife that he told her he would leave her if she
brought a gun in the house.[/quote]

Thats a bad thing? If my husband or SO ever made a statement like he did, he wouldn't have to worry about a family

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Having reviewed the gun grabbers' Master Plan, let's review ours.

Send money to NRA.
Take a kid shooting.
Join another gun organization.

----------------

Tell me something, guys. How do we "ignore" this stuff when the police start enforcing it? Do we maintain our "wildebeast" philosophy? "Well, there's only so many lions and they can't catch all of us." Duh...

We, as gun owners, don't even VOTE! Let alone vote as a united group for gun ownership. I'm tellin' ya - they're winning and they will continue to win! We aren't even in contention. (Except possibly for lip service.)

Our government doesn't listen to us. But they will rule us - soon.
 
QUOTE from Dennis:

>We, as gun owners, don't even VOTE! Let >alone vote as a united group for gun >ownership. I'm tellin' ya - they're winning >and they will continue to win! We aren't >even in contention. (Except possibly for lip >service.)
>
>Our government doesn't listen to us. But >they will rule us - soon.

You are absolutely right! I have been advocating getting the message about lawful and responsible gun ownership out for awhile.
The over riding truth about living in America is that money talks and BS walks. Why are the antigunners winning? Because they have become big business and they make a lot of noise! They play the emotional card. They tell parents that the only way to keep their kids safe is to remove the objects that cause harm. When in fact most people should know that if a child is in danger, you move the child not the object.

Somehow while we were not watching, people stopped being responsible. A majority believe that the state can solve their problems. We have been told that criminals are victims, and should not be held accountable. That the state is more important than the individual.

So how do we fight gun control, the current political climate of the nation and the sociological changes that are taking place?

1. VOTE, VOTE, VOTE Bottom line: If you don't vote, you have no right to complain. You did nothing so nothing is what you'll get.

2. write your representaives about your concerns. They do listen because they want to get re-elected. They will swing to the side that shows the greater numbers.

3. boycott TV programs and companies that do not respect or reflect our values.

4. push for term limits on politicians

5. write op-ed pieces for your local newspaper

6. call the local TV stations, ask for the station manager and complain when their reportage is slanted.

7. Join the NRA, GOA, Brassroots or any pro-gun groups and get involved.

8. Always remember that for evil to win in this world all it takes is good people to do nothing.

9. Being politically correct is transitory. What is PC today will not be tomorrow. Being PC is formed by pressure by groups or people exert on the popular culture. The way to undermine the the PC police is to bring pressure to bear on them, policy makers and companies that fund them. Think about it, Rosey O'Donnel has backed off her antigun rants. Why? Because the network, KMart and her advertisers were swamped with letters against her childish ambushing of Tom Sellick and whining antigun stand.

We can do this if we are strong!

just some thoughts



------------------
Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizona territory
 
Look at all of the money HCI's plan imposes in taxes etc. The purpose? Your rights become a country club. The taxes will further fund the juggernaught system that we have created.
Look at those numbers and send a portion to your favorite pro gun group or groups. Educate your friends and neighbors, take a friend from work hunting or shooting, talk to your elected "people" officials.
Take care, Hank
 
I hate to think what would be next if we allow these nuts to win. Will they ban knives, baseball bats, or even windows above the third floor of buildings.

WHAT MORONS !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top