Got my new '58 Remington

R

rebelwon

Inactive
Well, thanks for all the advice again! I ordered the '58 steel frame Remington from Cabelas, and it has arrived!! Looks great - fit-n-finish look good, action appears to work smoothly from what I can tell.

Now for a few more dumb newbie questions:confused: :

The manual that came with the pistol suggest, after an initial cleaning, to fire a cap thorugh each cylinder to clean out oil, etc. - would anyone agree/disagree?

With respect to powders, the CLOSEST outlet to me offers GOEX Pinnacle, Shockey's Gold, Pyrodex, and 777 powders - preferences? I have not found anywhere less than an hour's drive that offers plain old fffg black powder....

Any definitive opinions on wonder wads?

Thanks againin advance for any input...sorry to be a pain, but I like to do my research before I try something new:).
 
Before I load, I always fire a cap off of each chamber to make sure there is no oil blocking the hole in the nipple. Any for the bp substitutes will work in your revovler and I like to use wonder wads to help prevent chain fires. Just my 2 cents.:D
 
I agree it don't hurt but to check that they are clear and funtioning is a good idea before the first time out...

I don't use wonder wads I make own Lube Pills with Beeswax or Bolwax, Parafin, and Olive/Soy Oil. Punch um out 1/8 to 1/4" thick and use um under the ball.(or use .45 or .38 case with base cut off for cutter)
But wads will work out just don't lubricate like my pills do. I can shoot all day with out cleanin' or lubin'. I'll give ya the recipe and how to if you want it.
The Powder question is a tough one, all I use is Goex fffg Black Powder $16.50 a lb. I bought a pound a 777 ffg $23.50 and it don't shoot as accurately for me as Goex BP does. Never shot Pinnacle, not crazy about Pyrodex. Guss I'd try Pinnacle I heard it work ok. And If cost isn't an issue...777 ffg not fffg remember ffg both are 15% higher powered than BP by volume...so reduce by 15%, or buy Pyrodex.
Hope that helped and din't cornfuse the question Rebelwon.
Congrads on the New 1858 Rem good choice indeed....
Have fun!
 
cleaning

After every cleaning and before all shots fired I fire dry caps in it to remove all I can. A cap is not as expensive as the revolver or my arm and body.It's better to be safe than sorry. I follow my manual to the tee. I started with the lightest load of powder first then worked my way to the heaviest and found the medium to be fine by me. I can not however get my 58 hammer and trigger mechanisms as smooth as the one selling at the store though, no matter how much oil I use on it. It seems I should use some Slick 50 on it .
I can't shoot more than 25 rounds through my 1858' 45 and I got to clean it again. So I can only stay at the range for an hour or so shooting cap and ball. I would sure like your recipe so I can fire longer.
I got the conversion and I like it better cause I do not have to clean it after 25 shots and the darn caps do not get clogged on me cause there aren't any. I'll say the first wheel full I shot, my arm was extended far away, and my eyes were closed , goggles on and I would not have been happy unless I was in bullet proof protection with a metal pot on my head. But after the initial wheel I began to trust it.
 
I do like smokin gun, but seat my grease cookie over the ball; the ball is seated directly on the powder. I usually mix beeswax/alox bullet lube with crisco, let it cool and use a 45 colt case to cut out the cookies. I have done the wonder lube or crisco over the end of the chambers, but didn't like the mess; particularly in warm weather. Wonder wads work, but are expensive unless you buy them in bulk and lube them yourself.

One thing you want to do is make sure that you use the correct cap. Some revolvers use #10, some #11. You want a snug fit so that the cap doesn't fall off the nipple, exposing an uncapped nipple to sparks. I have never shot anything but black in mine, except when using my conversion cylinder. I would try the subs,but always seem to have a fair amount of black on hand.


Is your revolver a Pietta? I have a Uberti, love it, but have also shot a few Piettas that were very nice. Good luck with it!
 
360,

I am not putting you down, BUT....

We don't snap a cap on each nipple to test whether the gun is going to blow up. No "Rather be safe than sorry", there.

It's to clear out any residual oil from the rather small ignition channel, some 28 thou diameter. If you got a clog of grease there, it COULD not go off, even if the cap popped.

It is rare for these arms to blow up in your hand, no matter what load you put in them. The chambers only hold XX grs of powder, and that is not enough, in MOST cases, to blow up a modern replica.

Some people have been able to do it, but how'n the hell they did is beyond me.

I would say that any BP revolver you can fill the chambers of and still seat the ball to turn under the forcing cone of the barrell will mebbe give you a pretty good recoil, but will not blow up your pistol.

Cheers,

George
 
George made a good point; I usually only snap off a cylinder of caps before loading the first time at the range for a particular shooting session. After that, any residual gunk should be blown out of the nipple for subsequent shots. A pack of pipe cleaners from the tobacco counter at your drugstore is also a handy thing to keep on hand.

I try to keep the petroleum products away from my blackpowder guns. I have been using Ballistol cut with water lately, and it seems to work as well as soapy water. I have also found that a little wonderlube in the threads of the nipples helps to keep them from rusting.

I can generally get the revolver to keep shooting for as long as I wish to load it, without cleaning. If your gun fouls up quickly, you are probably not using enough of the proper lube or too much powder.

One final note on ball diameter. My Uberti manual suggested .454 for my .44. I shot a bunch of them, but found them very difficult to load.
I tried .451, and they shot great. .451 is still big enough to shave off the little circle of lead, but easy enough to load that the lever with firm pressure is adequate. My point is, don't be afraid to try different things; of course, you want a pure lead ball regardless of diameter.
 
To Smokin Gun, your pills don't melt in the Mohave? Here in Phoenix as I'm sure where you live, it gets muhay caliente. How do you keep them from being one big puddle?
 
Oldmaster, I just use more parafin than bolewax or beeswax...and a couple tablespoons less Olive oil depending on how soft or hard, oily or less oily I want them. So far all variations have held up in 90-110F temps, even some Pills a friend from back East sent me. But they all worked well. I'll give you my basic recipe if you want it...and you can make um how you like um best.
That was a good question. They beat the hell out of bore butter or Criso...LoL!
 
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As some have noted, be a good idea to mix up some appropriate wax/tallow to seal the chambers.
On a Remington, this muck serves another purpose. Due to the enclosed frame, the fouling (BP)tends
to collect under the strap, and will bind the cylinder after extended shooting. So if you place
enough chamber sealing grease, the amount which doesn't burn completely away, will tend to keep
the fouling soft enough for continued shooting. (In the original era, this shortfall was one reason many
preferred the colt design, not as strong but less sensitive to fouling)
Also, on the basepin for the cylinder, grease it well with a fairly heavy (permanent) grease. Due to
the small size of the Remington pin/arbor, and the lack of grease grooves..it is very vulnerable to fouling.
Without some type of muck to soften the fouling, lubricate the pin, it isn't uncommon for this to actually stick
in place. The grease makes the rotation less likely to stick from fouling, and certainly makes it easier to pull
a cylinder for exchange *should you have an extra.
Wads obviously don't do any of these things, and so are in large part a modern innovation. Although if
your making nitrated cartridges you could use them then.
Firing empty caps, use a cone pick instead. Or make one with some flexible wire and a cork.
 
This product works very well:
http://www.bigironbarrels.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=146

the base pin and exterior of the uberti 58 were merely oiled with breakfree. Since there was no over ball grease to mix with the black powder residue, there was no significant fouling and the revolver worked smoothly throughout the shoot. The lube components and wads closely resemble the discription in Elmer Keiths "Sixguns". He started shooting percussion revolvers early in the 20th century and picked up the loading method from old westerners . Historic pictures as well as the instructions put out by colt suggest that most shooters used neither over-ball grease nor wad material but keith's instructors prove that it was used during the historic period.
 
True in general the military didn't use the over the ball grease, their usual practice was the nitrated paper cartridges
with a picket ball. And they would advise (as did Marcy in the "Overland Traveler") to pull the loads each morning and
set a fresh load. And in general the military used a flap holster which negated some of the weather issues. And it
was also advised with both Colts and Remingtons, to pull the cylinders and wipe the faces to stop binding.
Others did seem to use the grease over the chambers, for various reasons. Including that some of these weapons
would have been worn out issues from the civil war, and even with an oversized ball, there were problems. More so
with a picket ball, as one of these loaded off cantor into a worn chamber could be trouble. Many civilian's could also
be a bit casual in the treatment of their firearms, so problems did happen. Such as Marcy advised, wasn't as common
as it should have been. (In San Francisco during the 50's rush, their were people who actually made money by
cleaning and loading the sidearms of others)
In general, the Remington's weren't quite as highly regarded as the Colt's due to the fouling problems. Also Colt
had the earlier start, so name recognition played a factor.
But in all the Remington was much better than some of it's rivals. The Colorado Militia (1860s)had been issued Whitneys,
and with those the triggers would actually bend when used.
*There are some relic weapons which have been found which do indicate some did use over the ball sealers. Recall
seeing one in Hays which had been found in that condition.
Keith, good source
 
yet another newbie question

Once more, I thoroughly appreciate all the advice the good folks here have given me. Because of schedule issues, and a lack of good ole Goex 3f at my closest dealer, I have not yet had a chance to try out my Pietta '58 Remington.

One question still remains...between the pistol's manual, Gatfeo's sticky threads, my experience with firearms, and the advice I have gleaned from readings here, do you guys think I can handle the first time out by myself, or should I get an experienced black powder shooter to go with me to show me the ropes? My barber has experience with BP revolvers, and I am sure he would go with me if I asked...
 
you/ll do fine. may run into some glitches but thats normal.

The pickets used in the walkers afforded a perfect shape charge for spill over powder and the bullets are difficult to load without canting. Ive read that the soldiers in the 1847 war quickly learned to use grease. They also found that loading the bullets backwards made the cylinders explode. A lot of the troops were totaly unfamiliar with bullets since ball had been the usual projectile until that time.
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Blast away, as others have pointed out you are indeed a rarity if you can damage a "Modern" replica by overloading it (you'll not be able to seat the ball enough to rotate the cylinder before you put to much BP in it).

I was as green as can be to this style of having fun prior to first shooting my 1860 Colt but thanks to numerous contributers in this forum I have more "FUN" with my cap & ball than all my other pistols. For example (early on) - I went to the range one day and found out a "match" was in progress on the pistol range. I asked the guy runnng the match if he minded my shooting off to the side and he said no so I did. I ended up up-wind however (shooting a black powder rig w/30 gr loads) from a bunch of guys shooting some very fancy 1911 style rigs with fancy optics. I was a real dweeed until I noted that they all took a break until I ran out of caps (what a great bunch of shooters, they saw me having fun and knew it would not last long hench a break while my smoke cleared). Thanks again guys and I will hold off or get downwind in the future.

Black Powder pistols (as commented by MEC in one of my earlier posts) give up absolutely nothing to their modern day counterparts other than being messy and slower to get ready. My 1860 Colt is just as accurate as my other rigs and at the range, allot more fun....

For the whatever it's worth Dept, I use a plug of Beeswax/Neats-Foot Oil (home brewed) in front of my balls and have had no problems. I have not tried wads inbetween the powder and ball, don't see the need to... I do always fire off a cap by itself with each chamber though before loading it up to "blow out" any left overs from the last cleaning. I make sure my ball size is large enough to "cut" a slight ring of lead when I seat it and that ensures a good seal between cylinders. I found a Remmington # 10 Cap works best after expierencing many missfires using the #11's suggested in the manual (you need to experement in other words if you have problems with missfires).

Once you find the mark, you'll just have fun.......
 
Sundance44s

Finding your mark with one if most diffently the key .. once done ,, you`ll be hooked for good ain`t nothin more fun .......... well almost nothing.:D
 
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