Got a S&W M65 Stainless .357 Magnum, now some questions.

B

Beyond_Visual_Range

New member
If you remember, I asked around here for some info on the S&W M65 awhile ago. You guys gave me some good feedbacks so I went and picked it up for $220 out the door. It's a used police trade in, but in great looking condition. The only thing major is a scratch on the original S&W wood panel, it removed some checkering. The grip feels abit small, and my fingers aren't comfortable reaching the trigger from "back there". Did S&W make some wood panels that covers up the little "loop" (hope I'm making sense here).

I have heard that M65 frame (J, L?) was made to fire .38spl, but this one's 4" barrel is marked S&W .357 magnum. I guess it's safe to fire that as well? Was this the original factory configuration, or could some gunsmith had changed the barrel on this?

I'd also like to know what I can use to polish up the stainless surface. It looks good, but I'd like to remove those little blemishes if I can. Would 0000 steel wool, Flitz and elbow grease do? Or should I use a Dremel with buffing wheel? I just want to make sure before I marr the metal. Thanks in advance.
 
BVR, the M65 is built on the K-frame, S&W's medium frame, which has been around since 1899. That frame size was designed around the .38 Special cartridge. In the following years, it has also been used for .32 Long, .32 H&R Magnum, .22 LR, and a couple others including the .357 Magnum.

S&W began heat treating frames and cylinders in the middle of the 20th century, and therefore the K-frame was able to handle hotter loads, like the .357 Mag.

With a few special order exceptions, ALL M65's are .357 Magnum. Yes, you can shoot either .38 or .357 in your gun.
The difference is that wear will be increased with constant .357 use. Especially with jacketed bullets in the lighter weights.
The increased wear will show as more fore-aft play in the cylinder, more rotational play in the cylinder; both of which affect lockup and consequently: accuracy.
Also, there are two things that can break after much .357 Magnum use in the K-frame.
The forcing cone, which is the rear area of the barrel that the bullet enters immediatly after leaving the chamber in the cylinder. These can crack over time. Sometimes it is plainly visible, sometimes it is really hard to see. A gunsmith should notice it for sure.
The other is the frame, where the barrel screws into it, on the underside, that flat area. In this frame size, K, the bottom of the barrel/thread area is flattened to allow the cylinder yoke to close. That is the thinnest area of metal and can also crack.
That usually happens if someone with a cracked forcing cone continues to shoot without replacing the barrel.
If the frame is cracked the gun is pretty much junked. Some people try to weld it, but that usually doesn't hold.

So, not to scare you, but the K-frame .357s are best used with any .38 load, and the 158gr .357 loads.
The 110gr and 125gr .357 JHPs are bad news with hundreds of hundreds of rounds.
If you really like the 110gr and 125gr .357s for defense, fine. A few dozen a year probably won't hurt anything; so, find a heavy 158gr .38 load that mimics the recoil of the 110-125gr .357s and use those for practice. Then, before putting the gun in your nighttand or carry holster, switch to the hot stuff.

Just my $.02, -Kframe :)

p.s.-Flitz and fine steel wool are what I use too.
Stay away from the dremel, it goes too fast.
If you aren't constantly moving the bit you will put some deep rubs into the surface.
Some people swear by the dremel.
Some people swear at it.
I'd rather not take the risk.
 
The M64 is the .38 Special and the M65 is the .357 Magnum. Same gun except for caliber.

I have been hearing for 30 years how full loads will wear out a K frame Magnum. Never actually seen one worn out from shooting, and mine are still fine after many years of using nothing but very heavy loads. If I want to shoot .38s I will use a .38 revolver. When I want a Magnum, then dammit I want a Magnum.
 
If the "little loop" you're talking about is the space between the rear of the trigger guard and the front of the grip frame, you can get many models of aftermarket grips to fill in that space, letting the grip rest on your middle finger at that point. Since you've mentioned that you have small hands, try to avoid grips that cover the rear of the grip frame-that will increase the distance you have to reach to get to the trigger. S&W has some "target" type grips that fill in that space, you can also look for an "adapter" (Tyler and Pachmayr used to make them) to clip on to the front of the grip frame and fill in that space. Herrett's and other custom makers have grip models that can be made to fit the dimensions of your hand.
 
Good advice above, with one excption: I don't recommend regular steel wool for use on stainless. The steel wool will embed into the stainless, and can rust, leaving stains on you're gun.

A better option are the synthetic blending or sanding pads sold at hardware stores in the sandpaper department.
These are the same as the green scrubber pads sold in grocery stores, but are available in finer "grits". The green pads are equivalenmt to '000' steel wool, and are too course.
I recomment the grey/green pads that are equivalent to '0000' steel wool.

Just LIGHTLY rub the scuffed or shiny areas, and finish off by rubbing in one direction to restore the factory "grain" direction.
 
There is stainless steel wool. Not as easy to find, but it is around.

It is not as simple as M65=.357, M64=.38.
Over the years S&W has made special contract runs for various agencies in contradictory calibers.
There have been .38Spl M13's and 357 M10s, and many others including the Model's 64 and 65.

-Kframe
 
Hello. Maybe these will be of help....

This 4" Model 19, also a K-frame .357 Magnum w/square butt, has the small S&W stocks and a Tyler T grip adapter as mentioned by a poster above.
fd21a0ad.jpg


Unless you're welded to the S&W rnd butt stocks for the Model 65, I kind of like Eagle's "Secret Service" stocks for the rnd butt K-frames. This one's on a 2 1/2" S&W Model 19, but would fit your revolver as well....
fd2de834.jpg

They offer the "forward material" like the grip adapter.

You can also go with the rubber stocks if you like. These are from Pachmayr and while smaller, are more comfortable for me than the original stocks.
fd66232c.jpg


Best.
 
Stephen,
Those are the Pachmyers that I want for my Lady Smith 65. None of the gun stores sell them around here so I have to get them on the net. What model are they? I want to make sure I get the right ones.
 
KFrame- You sure about 64s and 65s in each other's calibers? I know it has happened with 10s and 13s, but I have never seen or heard of a .357 M64 or a .38 M65.
 
thanks for all the input, I've learned much about this revolver! :) It's so good looking I might just have to get another. Does anyone have an idea what's a good "companion" S&W revolver to go with it? Is there a good single-action S&W that you can recommend? Doesn't have to be SS, but same .38 could save me some ammo cost. Oh, I dont' really care for snubbies, but 6" looks pretty cool. Thanks!

I must say S&W make the best revolvers! (at least the way they used to make them)
 
The only single action (SA) S&W revolvers have been some specialized target guns. If you want a .38 companion there is always the M64, or would that too similar? A 67 is a 4" stainless K frame .38 with adjustable sights. Verys sporty. In blue it is the M15 and these are very reasonable right now due to a bunch being dumped on market recently from law enforcement agencies. They can be had for $150-$200 easily. A 6" M14 is classic but will cost maybe $75-$100 more.
 
Beyond_Visual_Range - - - -

You ask abou a good .38 Spl companion for your .357 Mag, to "save me some ammo cost. "

I tust you are aware that you may shoot .38 Special ammo in your .357. Aren't you? Don't get me wrong--A good .38 is plenty of justification in its own right, but you don't need one to shoot .38 ammmo.


I have read for years the THEORY that shooting the shorter .38 cartridges in .357 chambers will eventually (or was it instantaneously) lead to horrible pitting and errosion of said chambers, making it impossible to shoot mag loads, ever nae never no more.

I had several friends and associated who shot many thousands of .38 loads in .357 revolvers, back when the Police PPC was a popular sport. I never, NEVER, NEVER heard of any cylinder being ruined by the practice. About the worst thing that happened was when one shot so much soft lead, full wadcutter ammo that it left lead deposits and made it difficult to chamber the longer cases. This was easily cured with a proper cleaning. But it bears mention that one could shoot a LOT of .38 ammo before reaching that point.

Best,
Johnny
 
yeah I know about shooting .38spl in .357 guns. I meant to save money in buying .38spl only so I don't have to have different caliber ammo for them.

Is there a good .22LR revolver I should get? It's gotta be pretty cheap to do that. Maybe even some cowboy shooting action. :D
 
Kframe- Sorry to bring it up again, but I checked the Standard Catalog on the 64 & 65 and it said that the 64 was made briefly in .357 and this led to the introduction of the 65, but no mention of any .38 Special M65s. Have you actually seen one?

Oh, on using .38 Specials in a .357 Magnum, it won't cause damage but you clean the chambers more thoroughly to avoid residue build-up that could eventually make it impossible to load the gun. Also, performance from the .38 round is reduced in the larger chamber. No matter for plinking, but if I want a .38 for any serious use I use a .38 Special revolver.
 
SP, I have not seen one with my own eyes, but a friend of mine that I'd trust with my life says he owns one.
He definitely knows his S&W's. I believe him.

With S&W, "always" and "never" do not apply.
They've made some pretty odd stuff in the past hundred-fifty odd years.

Oh, and I've a tip for cleaning the crud out of a .357 cylinder after shooting lots of .38s: I use a fired .357 Maximum case, and by hand I 'ream' out the chambers. It gets the stuff that a .357 Magnum case won't quite reach.

-Kframe
 
At this point I am inclined to believe that any .38 M65 is actually a mismarked frame. This happened quite often with so many models being based on the same basic frame.
 
Guys, especially K-Frame, I gotta question which is an off-shoot of the durability question. I, too, have read many times about the lighter .357 loads being harder on guns than the heavier 158 grain loads. I can certainly understand that when it comes to the hot-loaded, nominally 1450 fps 125 grainers but references to the light, hard loads usually include the 110 grainers also. That's where I get a bit confused. If the 110's were 1500plus fps, I can see it but I only know of Cor-Bon that loads to that level in the 110s. Most of the 110s I am familiar with, Winchester, Remington, Federal, etc. are loaded to a nominal 1300 fps or thereabouts. So, I don't quite get how a 110 grain bullet at 1300 fps is anywhere near as hard on a forcing cone as a 125 grain at 1450 fps. What am I missing here? Thanks, I hope someone can clear this up for me.
 
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