I have a Lee 4 die set for 45 Colt and like it except for the expander die. The cases frequently stick, and I'm having trouble adjusting it to "just the right flare". What expander die would you consider an improvement over the Lee for loading .452 lead or powder coated bullets?
Good expander die for 45 Colt lead bullets
- Thread starter Jakeway
- Start date
disseminator
New member
Try the RCBS "cowboy" expander. I recommend the whole die set actually. I had a few other brands and finally found these cowboy dies are 100%.
They are tailor made for lead bullets.
They are tailor made for lead bullets.
Hammerhead
New member
Agreed, the M die is the gold standard for loading cast or jacketed IMO.
Redding expanders also have the M die profile.
Redding expanders also have the M die profile.
Lyman currently lists a 4 die set for the 45 Automatic but not the 45 Colt so I'm a little confused about what you might be using. Lyman's current 3 die set for the Colt 45 should include the M type expanding die, which should work very well with cast bullet loads. I have had some issues with cases sticking in floating powder-thru type expanders, but not in non-floating expanding dies.
IME the case overall length is a big contributor to variations in case expanding/belling. A variation of much over 5 or 6 thousandths in case length can result in a major variation in the amount of case belling that results.
Edit: I misread the OP and was thinking he was using Lyman dies (instead of Lee dies). As has been stated, the Lyman M style expander will work well, and will not stick like the Lee powder thru expander.
IME the case overall length is a big contributor to variations in case expanding/belling. A variation of much over 5 or 6 thousandths in case length can result in a major variation in the amount of case belling that results.
Edit: I misread the OP and was thinking he was using Lyman dies (instead of Lee dies). As has been stated, the Lyman M style expander will work well, and will not stick like the Lee powder thru expander.
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Ditch the Lees. I have both the Lyman Type M expander and the RCBS Cowboy expander. While the Lyman is good, they make it too small for good use with lead bullets in the .45 Colt. The larger RCBS Cowboy expander is bigger and works better. Lately I have been having custom expanders made for me that are clones of the Lyman Type M, only in larger diameters that work well with cast bullets. These expanders will fit in both Lyman and RCBS expander dies.
Don
Don
Cases would only stick if new brass or if the sizer is too small. Lees are generally best for jacketed (standard) diameters.
I find that if flaring isn't suitable, sometimes the bullets I buy are actually oversized and work perfectly if I resize them. For example, I recently had problems with 45 ACP not "plunking" and, after trying every adjustment I could think of, found what was bought as .452 was actually .453. They were coated, so I didn't need lube to resize, after which the problem went away.
I find that if flaring isn't suitable, sometimes the bullets I buy are actually oversized and work perfectly if I resize them. For example, I recently had problems with 45 ACP not "plunking" and, after trying every adjustment I could think of, found what was bought as .452 was actually .453. They were coated, so I didn't need lube to resize, after which the problem went away.
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Lots or votes for the Lyman M and the RCBS Cowboy. I'm shooting this just for fun, with possibly some actual Cowboy Action in the distant future, but I plan to use cast lead (probably Hi-Tek coated, .452 dia.
I might return the whole Lee set, since the sizing die seems to re-size the case way more than necessary, leaving a noticeable bulge around the bullet after seating. But I heard that the stem in the seating die of the RCBS Cowboy set isn't the best for RNFP
I might return the whole Lee set, since the sizing die seems to re-size the case way more than necessary, leaving a noticeable bulge around the bullet after seating. But I heard that the stem in the seating die of the RCBS Cowboy set isn't the best for RNFP
As for brass, they are brand new Starline that I re-sized to get rid of any dents from shipment.
If the die set expects 450-451 bullets and you load 452-453,, you are certainly going to see the bullet print through the case. The dies are fine, but are sized to standard, not lead.
My RCBS Cowboy carbide set includes a seating stem that has a flat face, well suited to flat point bullets. I don't think I special ordered that but know that RCBS has more than one kind.
disseminator
New member
Not sure where you heard that but it ain't so, I load the 250g RNFP all the time in mine and it works perfectly.
J.G. Terry
New member
Lee Universal Expander
Lee Universal Expander: For those of us who got into cast bullets in more recent years this gadget is a wonderment. It's great as is. Also fNOE sells expanders by size for handgun and rifle. The expanders go into the Lee expander die. I needed a .310 expander. Got one from NOE that worked great. This arrangement using the Lee die works like the Lyman M die but with more diameter choices. The Lee expander, as is, is great for people who have accumulated two piece rifle dies and are recently into lead bullets.
Lee Universal Expander: For those of us who got into cast bullets in more recent years this gadget is a wonderment. It's great as is. Also fNOE sells expanders by size for handgun and rifle. The expanders go into the Lee expander die. I needed a .310 expander. Got one from NOE that worked great. This arrangement using the Lee die works like the Lyman M die but with more diameter choices. The Lee expander, as is, is great for people who have accumulated two piece rifle dies and are recently into lead bullets.
Jakeway,
Seeing the bullet mirrored through the case is normal. But for accuracy, the question of import is whether or not it is mirrored fairly evenly all around the case? If you use only a conical or belled flare at the case mouth, it is common for the bullet to be slightly cocked seating into the case, so you see a rather exaggerated bulge on just one side of the case. At 45 Auto pressures, jacketed bullets will tend to straighten in the bore, but softer bullets entering the barrel in that orientation frequently just extrude into the bore at that tilted angle, resulting in their center of gravity spinning eccentrically in the bore and pitching the bullet laterally to drift off the mean trajectory as it exits the muzzle. This opens groups up measurable, especially at 50 yards and beyond.
If you like the powder-through feature of the Lee dies, Lyman makes what it calls their Multi-expander that has powder-through inserts for all common handgun calibers, so you could get one of those. This has the M-type expander profile which puts a little step in the case under the flare. The step holds the bullet straight so it doesn't tilt as the seating die starts to press it into the case. This prevents tilting and you will see the slight bulge at the bullet base is much more even all around the case. The only remaining small unevenness is due to the case wall thickness being uneven, but that small amount doesn't affect typical handgun groups appreciably.
Seeing the bullet mirrored through the case is normal. But for accuracy, the question of import is whether or not it is mirrored fairly evenly all around the case? If you use only a conical or belled flare at the case mouth, it is common for the bullet to be slightly cocked seating into the case, so you see a rather exaggerated bulge on just one side of the case. At 45 Auto pressures, jacketed bullets will tend to straighten in the bore, but softer bullets entering the barrel in that orientation frequently just extrude into the bore at that tilted angle, resulting in their center of gravity spinning eccentrically in the bore and pitching the bullet laterally to drift off the mean trajectory as it exits the muzzle. This opens groups up measurable, especially at 50 yards and beyond.
If you like the powder-through feature of the Lee dies, Lyman makes what it calls their Multi-expander that has powder-through inserts for all common handgun calibers, so you could get one of those. This has the M-type expander profile which puts a little step in the case under the flare. The step holds the bullet straight so it doesn't tilt as the seating die starts to press it into the case. This prevents tilting and you will see the slight bulge at the bullet base is much more even all around the case. The only remaining small unevenness is due to the case wall thickness being uneven, but that small amount doesn't affect typical handgun groups appreciably.
I've had 3 different brands of .45 Colt sizers, they all 'oversize' the brass. I'm sure it's dimensionally correct (to SAAMI) but there are so many differences in .45 Colt chamber dimensions and components you would have to have a custom made sizer to find something that didn't do that. Part of it, also, is if the sizer only sized to the diameter of the bullet, there wouldn't be enough neck tension in the case to hold the bullet properly, even my .41 rounds look slightly 'hourglass' when they come out of the press.