Good 44 mag 1200 fps load
- Thread starter Fox84
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ligonierbill
New member
I have not tried any moderate loads in my 44 yet, but I have in 45 Colt. With 20 grains of H110, I get about 1,150 with 255 cast. The Oregon Trail manual lists 19.8 as a " do not reduce " load for their 250's. Of course, you can't go too low with H110.
"There aint one cuz H110/296 can NOT be down loaded."
Correct. H110 is a full throttle powder and should not be reduced below the manual's recommendations.
I'm using some 44 mag loads with a 200 grain Nosler and enough 800X to reach 1100-1200 which are accurate and easy on my old hands. You might have better results with AA#9 or Lil'Gun in less than magnum loads.
Correct. H110 is a full throttle powder and should not be reduced below the manual's recommendations.
I'm using some 44 mag loads with a 200 grain Nosler and enough 800X to reach 1100-1200 which are accurate and easy on my old hands. You might have better results with AA#9 or Lil'Gun in less than magnum loads.
WVMountaineer
New member
20 to 21 grains of 2400 behind a 240 grain copper plated bullet will be exactly where you want to be. Actually, it will probably take a full house H110 load to better the energy you quoted out of a 4 inch barrel. And while 2400 gives a little to the H110, it don't give much in performance but, is a powder you can load down. God Bless
98 220 swift
New member
I use the starting load of 23grs of h110/296( I believe this is the correct grains I don't have the data in front of me it is the starting load though) in my 6" model 29. I get 1225 fps with 240gr xtp. This should get you somewhat close to 1200 in a 4" may have to increase the load a little.
I had to think about that a few seconds, but get what you're saying. To get 1200 fps from a 4" gun you'd need to be using a load rated at about 1500 fps from a standard test barrel.
I don't load for my 44's. I can buy from these guys cheap enough to suit me. Since they buy back the brass the prices are even more reasonable. I shoot a lot of these rated at 1100 fps.
http://www.georgia-arms.com/new-44-rem-mag-240gr-lead-semi-wadcutter/
They are a good mid range load that I feel will do fine for most uses.
g.willikers
New member
Back in my sixgun days, the 44 Mag loads were either full house with 2400 or downloaded with Unique.
I never looked any further than than as those were all that was required.
If Unique is scarce, there's probably something close from one of the other powder makers these days.
I never looked any further than than as those were all that was required.
If Unique is scarce, there's probably something close from one of the other powder makers these days.
I am looking at "Speer 8" 1970:
44 mag 240 gr JSP, H110 21 gr - 23 gr, 1280 - 1455 fps, 6.5" barrel
44 spec 240 gr JSP, H110 14 gr - 16 gr, 1002 - 1087 fps, 6.5" barrel
I plugged this data into Quickload, using 8.2" barrel to add on the length of the cylinder, and 1.565" OAL for 44 mag and 1.465" OAL for 44 special as listed for those bullets in "Speer 12" as "Speer 8" does not list OAL.
44 mag: 20,693 psi 1260 fps - 27,118 psi 1397 fps
44 special: 7,603 psi 805 fps - 9,780 psi 917 fps
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When I compare this to my experiments with 45 Colt 250 gr XTP JHP and H110:
20.0 gr with a roll crimp shoots ok [13,565 psi in QL], But 21 gr without a roll crimp does not shoot [15,465 psi in QL]. The 21 gr load causes the bullet to lodge in the forcing cone and the revolver is jammed and in need of a ram rod to get unjammed.
Other experiments in 45 Colt show that although 2400 burns much better that H110 at reduced loads, it does not do so accurately. With someone who is a good shot with a handgun [not me] I have found that Unique makes far better groups in reduced 45 Colt Loads than 2400.
-----------------------------
Many years earlier I contacted Hodgdon about the H110 reduced loads warning. The man told me that there was no danger of detonation, but the concern was stuck bullets.
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What do I think all this means?
One could shoot 20.7 gr H110 240 gr JHP in a 44 mag with firm roll crimp and get 1200 fps and it will function.
44 mag 240 gr JSP, H110 21 gr - 23 gr, 1280 - 1455 fps, 6.5" barrel
44 spec 240 gr JSP, H110 14 gr - 16 gr, 1002 - 1087 fps, 6.5" barrel
I plugged this data into Quickload, using 8.2" barrel to add on the length of the cylinder, and 1.565" OAL for 44 mag and 1.465" OAL for 44 special as listed for those bullets in "Speer 12" as "Speer 8" does not list OAL.
44 mag: 20,693 psi 1260 fps - 27,118 psi 1397 fps
44 special: 7,603 psi 805 fps - 9,780 psi 917 fps
--------------------------------------------------
When I compare this to my experiments with 45 Colt 250 gr XTP JHP and H110:
20.0 gr with a roll crimp shoots ok [13,565 psi in QL], But 21 gr without a roll crimp does not shoot [15,465 psi in QL]. The 21 gr load causes the bullet to lodge in the forcing cone and the revolver is jammed and in need of a ram rod to get unjammed.
Other experiments in 45 Colt show that although 2400 burns much better that H110 at reduced loads, it does not do so accurately. With someone who is a good shot with a handgun [not me] I have found that Unique makes far better groups in reduced 45 Colt Loads than 2400.
-----------------------------
Many years earlier I contacted Hodgdon about the H110 reduced loads warning. The man told me that there was no danger of detonation, but the concern was stuck bullets.
----------------------------
What do I think all this means?
One could shoot 20.7 gr H110 240 gr JHP in a 44 mag with firm roll crimp and get 1200 fps and it will function.
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Try a 240 gr. Cast SWC and 10.0 - 11.2/Unique. If Unique is unavailable, try the same combination with Herco. Initial velocities will be lower than with Unique, and the "quit point" may be higher by as much as 10%. I know that, somewhere above 10.6/Unique/240 SWC gives around 1250 f/s from a 6.5" Smith. Not sure about a 4" M29, but should be in the ballpark.
"...thinking 2 gr below starting load..." It's called a starting load for a reason. Below minimum loads can be as dangerous as above max loads. Causes weird pressures when the powder detonates vs burns.
What you need are cast bullet loads for a 240. H110 isn't good for those. ImcR4227 on the other hand is. Have a 232 grain cast load in my old Lyman book that says 19.0(1022 fps) to 26.0(c)(1459 fps) that do.
What you need are cast bullet loads for a 240. H110 isn't good for those. ImcR4227 on the other hand is. Have a 232 grain cast load in my old Lyman book that says 19.0(1022 fps) to 26.0(c)(1459 fps) that do.
H110/W296 Load Variations
Of course everyone is right to state in this thread that H110 cannot be downloaded - and then again, they are wrong.
While many load data sources only list a single max load for these powders, and state flatly that they must be loaded exactly as published with NO starting load, other sources list a range of loads with the same powder and bullet combo. Furthermore, the max load published in one particular manual is often quite different than the max load for the same bullet in a different manual. So clearly, some download is possible from the full max data. For example, Speer #9, 1974, gives a range of H110 with a 240g JSP from 20.5g - 22.5g (with the lower load generating 1274 fps). But if you look in Hodgdon #23, 1979, you will find just one maximum load for H110 with a 240g JSP, and it is way up at 24.0 grains! That is a pretty wide spread for a powder that "CANNOT" be downloaded.
I am NOT suggesting that you should just ignore the published data and try to download H110. Just know that by checking multiple data sources, you might find a published load for the same bullet that is in fact a "download" that you were thinking about, thus making it legit to try. In fact, I always try to check multiple sources for new load data I am considering, and if I find that most agree in general ranges, but maybe one is way off, either high or low, then I tend to avoid the strange one and try to keep loads in line with the common consensus from the other data sources.
I absolutely DO agree with the caveat that these are powders where you should be careful to not go below the minimum published in whatever source data you are using, and even then, be very cautious of any changes is sound or recoil when testing the lower loads so that you never get surprised by a stuck bullet.
Now to the OP's original questions - how to get a 1200 fps load with H110 and 240g plated bullets in a .44 mag -
Anyway, back to the question - My first suggestion would be to consider the minimum load from the Speer #9 manual for a Speer 240 gr Soft Point with 20.5 gr H110, producing 1274 fps in a 7 1/2" SBH.
Secondly, do consider a .44 Spl load - I know you said you do not want to drop to the .44 Special level, but really, what is the difference if you get the same speed from the same weight bullet (other than saving some very expensive powder)???? And I am not talking about overloading the Special - I am using published data that should produce less than 15,000 CUP.
I am loading 15.0 grains of W296 (same as H110) behind a 240g hard cast SWC bullet with a 3/4 turn crimp on the seating die, and I get measured 1156 fps from my Ruger SBH with an average deviation of just 8 fps. NOTE THAT THIS LOAD IS FOR .44 SPL and requires correct .44 Spl cases, NOT .44 Magnum! Here's the background on that load:
H110 data for a .44 Spl is not particularly easy to find, and especially not for cast bullets. The Hodgdon #23 manual does show 14.5 gr H110 with a 240 gr JSP at 1192 fps and 14,600 CUP. It also shows 16.0 grains H110 with a 250 gr lead gas checked bullet for 1202 fps and 13,200 CUP. So I decided to substitute the 240 gr hard cast LSW and start with 14.5 grains W296. While I did get consistent ignition and good accuracy, the speed variation was quite wide, averaging almost 100 fps. This indicated to me that the load was probably just hanging on the ragged edge of almost too little for this powder and particular bullet combination in the .44 Spl. As soon as I upped the powder charge to 15.0 grains, everything smoothed out perfectly.
Basically this load produces muzzle energy equal to a typical .357 Magnum spitting 158 gr JSPs, but does it while staying within the very low pressure levels of the .44 Spl. Bigger holes in the paper with a nice 'medium' level of recoil from a big gun. And the estimated low pressures seem about right - the cases drop from the cylinder under their own weight.
Of course everyone is right to state in this thread that H110 cannot be downloaded - and then again, they are wrong.
While many load data sources only list a single max load for these powders, and state flatly that they must be loaded exactly as published with NO starting load, other sources list a range of loads with the same powder and bullet combo. Furthermore, the max load published in one particular manual is often quite different than the max load for the same bullet in a different manual. So clearly, some download is possible from the full max data. For example, Speer #9, 1974, gives a range of H110 with a 240g JSP from 20.5g - 22.5g (with the lower load generating 1274 fps). But if you look in Hodgdon #23, 1979, you will find just one maximum load for H110 with a 240g JSP, and it is way up at 24.0 grains! That is a pretty wide spread for a powder that "CANNOT" be downloaded.
I am NOT suggesting that you should just ignore the published data and try to download H110. Just know that by checking multiple data sources, you might find a published load for the same bullet that is in fact a "download" that you were thinking about, thus making it legit to try. In fact, I always try to check multiple sources for new load data I am considering, and if I find that most agree in general ranges, but maybe one is way off, either high or low, then I tend to avoid the strange one and try to keep loads in line with the common consensus from the other data sources.
I absolutely DO agree with the caveat that these are powders where you should be careful to not go below the minimum published in whatever source data you are using, and even then, be very cautious of any changes is sound or recoil when testing the lower loads so that you never get surprised by a stuck bullet.
Now to the OP's original questions - how to get a 1200 fps load with H110 and 240g plated bullets in a .44 mag -
(BIG storm blasting here right now - gonna save this and go back to edit with more info before I loose it all!) WOW - that was close - almost instantaneously when I hit the enter, we got knocked off line - couldn't have been even a second later when the power went out and monitor turned black! But the save made it though...
Anyway, back to the question - My first suggestion would be to consider the minimum load from the Speer #9 manual for a Speer 240 gr Soft Point with 20.5 gr H110, producing 1274 fps in a 7 1/2" SBH.
Secondly, do consider a .44 Spl load - I know you said you do not want to drop to the .44 Special level, but really, what is the difference if you get the same speed from the same weight bullet (other than saving some very expensive powder)???? And I am not talking about overloading the Special - I am using published data that should produce less than 15,000 CUP.
I am loading 15.0 grains of W296 (same as H110) behind a 240g hard cast SWC bullet with a 3/4 turn crimp on the seating die, and I get measured 1156 fps from my Ruger SBH with an average deviation of just 8 fps. NOTE THAT THIS LOAD IS FOR .44 SPL and requires correct .44 Spl cases, NOT .44 Magnum! Here's the background on that load:
H110 data for a .44 Spl is not particularly easy to find, and especially not for cast bullets. The Hodgdon #23 manual does show 14.5 gr H110 with a 240 gr JSP at 1192 fps and 14,600 CUP. It also shows 16.0 grains H110 with a 250 gr lead gas checked bullet for 1202 fps and 13,200 CUP. So I decided to substitute the 240 gr hard cast LSW and start with 14.5 grains W296. While I did get consistent ignition and good accuracy, the speed variation was quite wide, averaging almost 100 fps. This indicated to me that the load was probably just hanging on the ragged edge of almost too little for this powder and particular bullet combination in the .44 Spl. As soon as I upped the powder charge to 15.0 grains, everything smoothed out perfectly.
Basically this load produces muzzle energy equal to a typical .357 Magnum spitting 158 gr JSPs, but does it while staying within the very low pressure levels of the .44 Spl. Bigger holes in the paper with a nice 'medium' level of recoil from a big gun. And the estimated low pressures seem about right - the cases drop from the cylinder under their own weight.
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For a new reloader the best advise is to stay within the loads listed in your reloading manual(s). There are answers in this thread that are beyond logic, even for me and I've been loading the .44 Magnum since '86 and now reload for 5, .44 Magnums.
FWIW, and it has worked for me for 30 years; pay little (no) attention to any load data you see on any forum, from any range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website, or gun shop guru. While most of these folks are just trying to be helpful, and some are being an "expert", don't rely on any data from an amateur, no matter how long they have been reloading or how "good" they sound. Use published load data from reliable sources (powder manufacturers, bullet manufacturers, and reloading equipment manufacturers) and you'll stay safe. Later after you have gained experience and knowledge, you can extrapolate (guess
) your loads from different or unknown sources, if you choose.
Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun (and stay safe)...
FWIW, and it has worked for me for 30 years; pay little (no) attention to any load data you see on any forum, from any range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website, or gun shop guru. While most of these folks are just trying to be helpful, and some are being an "expert", don't rely on any data from an amateur, no matter how long they have been reloading or how "good" they sound. Use published load data from reliable sources (powder manufacturers, bullet manufacturers, and reloading equipment manufacturers) and you'll stay safe. Later after you have gained experience and knowledge, you can extrapolate (guess
) your loads from different or unknown sources, if you choose.Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun (and stay safe)...
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I bought 200 cases and loaded 86 with 12.4 of Bluedot. Recoil was almost the same of 44 special loads I fired. I'll probably step it up a bit. I'am impressed with accuracy of my Tauras Tracker. I was striking a 12 inch steel plate at 50yds with a sandbag 44 mag loads. My 44 special loads with Power Pistol were not so special. I'll chronograph soon.
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What powders other than H110 fdo you have on hand? Rather than suggest some load with unobtanium, how about we work with what you have? Plated bullets should generally be loaded to 1/2 way point of jacketed data (for most manufacturers bullets in magnum loads) So with that in mind, what do you have besides Blue Dot? Blue Dot can be a tempermental powder.....always has been.
FWIW, and it has worked for me for 16 years; pay little (no) attention to any published load
Not much science or engineering was involved. Any guy in a lab coat could load down until a bullet is stuck, load up until brass fails, pick a spot halfway in between and publish the recipe and call it data. But that would be science and math. That would be consistent, per some rules. Published loads seem to be random. Ok, Ok, Sierra rifle loads do appear to be based on the reality of a real max load minus a safety margin.. but look at those Speer, Nosler, Hornady load books.... random numbers.