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Golden Saber 357 and 38+p
- Thread starter drrpg01
- Start date
Perhaps this will help....
http://usrange.org/smf/index.php?topic=2836.0
I choose Rem GS 125gr .357magnum for my carry ammo in my S&W M&P360 litewt snubie revolver for lower recoil. Which I can pocket carry in a Mika holster. Due to recoil some LEO friends prefer to carry 38+p in theirs which they feel gives them faster recovery for follow up shots. One friend prefers the 340 model with enclosed hammer and a CrimsonTrace laser grip for lower recoil. That grip is a little large for my pocket so I have the original grip on mine. I do practice with mostly 38spec ammo and usually only fire one cylinder of magnum at the range just for POA and recoil assurance. The magnum recoil is not for everyone.
Being a civilian I might only get one good shot is why I prefer to carry the magnum round for more fire power realizing "placement" and close up self defense is more important, to me at least. Just my opinion, YMMV.
To see the pictures of the bullet ballistics you will have to register and login on the USR site. (A legitimate ISP e-mail address is necessary to register. Yahoo and hotmail, etc. are not accepted.)
And on my results you will note that Speer GD 135gr 38spec+p gave better penetration than Rem GS 38special. With less expansion for the Speer. Expansion and penetration are always a trade off with bigger expansion acting like a parachute thus slowing the penetration. Personal preference.
My test results compared both my chrony readings with the snubie with factory numbers (from a 4"barrel). Factory ammo is not always the same for every round out of the box so someone else may have better data than mine.
Happy to hear comments, pro or con. Opinions are opinions and no two self defense encounters are the same.
Cheers,
og
http://usrange.org/smf/index.php?topic=2836.0
I choose Rem GS 125gr .357magnum for my carry ammo in my S&W M&P360 litewt snubie revolver for lower recoil. Which I can pocket carry in a Mika holster. Due to recoil some LEO friends prefer to carry 38+p in theirs which they feel gives them faster recovery for follow up shots. One friend prefers the 340 model with enclosed hammer and a CrimsonTrace laser grip for lower recoil. That grip is a little large for my pocket so I have the original grip on mine. I do practice with mostly 38spec ammo and usually only fire one cylinder of magnum at the range just for POA and recoil assurance. The magnum recoil is not for everyone.
Being a civilian I might only get one good shot is why I prefer to carry the magnum round for more fire power realizing "placement" and close up self defense is more important, to me at least. Just my opinion, YMMV.
To see the pictures of the bullet ballistics you will have to register and login on the USR site. (A legitimate ISP e-mail address is necessary to register. Yahoo and hotmail, etc. are not accepted.)
And on my results you will note that Speer GD 135gr 38spec+p gave better penetration than Rem GS 38special. With less expansion for the Speer. Expansion and penetration are always a trade off with bigger expansion acting like a parachute thus slowing the penetration. Personal preference.
My test results compared both my chrony readings with the snubie with factory numbers (from a 4"barrel). Factory ammo is not always the same for every round out of the box so someone else may have better data than mine.
Happy to hear comments, pro or con. Opinions are opinions and no two self defense encounters are the same.
Cheers,
og
Last edited:
I compared some Remington 125 grain JSP UMC to some 125 grain JHP Golden Sabre. My results:
125 grain JSP UMC:
4" S&W 686 ......... 1395 fps
6" S&W 686 ......... 1450 fps
Marlin 1894C 18 1/2" 2110 fps
Desert Eagle 10" ... 1800 fps
125 grain JHP Golden Sabre:
4" S&W 686 ......... 1220 fps
6" S&W 686 ......... 1280 fps
Marlin 1894C 18 1/2" did not test
Desert Eagle 10" ... did not test
125 grain JSP UMC:
4" S&W 686 ......... 1395 fps
6" S&W 686 ......... 1450 fps
Marlin 1894C 18 1/2" 2110 fps
Desert Eagle 10" ... 1800 fps
125 grain JHP Golden Sabre:
4" S&W 686 ......... 1220 fps
6" S&W 686 ......... 1280 fps
Marlin 1894C 18 1/2" did not test
Desert Eagle 10" ... did not test
great report, Hook, really shows the difference with barrel length. So a little summary so far for the .357magnum, assuming that's what Hook tested (correct me if I'm wrong)....
Rem GS 125 gr
factory........1220fps
6"...............1280
4"...............1220, just like factory
1 7/8"..........1180
Rem UMC 125 gr
factory.........1450fps
6"................1450
4"................1395
1 7/8"...........1225
(rifles much higher)
so what kkb said applies too, factory data is pretty good for the 4" barrel. The short barrel snubie really cuts it down.
Now drrpg needs to tell us if this answers his question. It sure helps me.
og
Rem GS 125 gr
factory........1220fps
6"...............1280
4"...............1220, just like factory
1 7/8"..........1180
Rem UMC 125 gr
factory.........1450fps
6"................1450
4"................1395
1 7/8"...........1225
(rifles much higher)
so what kkb said applies too, factory data is pretty good for the 4" barrel. The short barrel snubie really cuts it down.
Now drrpg needs to tell us if this answers his question. It sure helps me.
og
In 38+P they're mediocre at best. I would give those a skip.
In 357, they're another attempt to make a slightly "de-tuned" 357 for the smaller guns. And it's not bad as such things go...has a little more heat on it than Speer's 135gr 357 "short barrel specialty load", about the same power as Cor-Bon's 125gr DPX.
If I wanted something in that class, and they do make a lot of sense in some situations, I think the DPX probably spanks the Golden Saber but the DPX is more expensive and hence harder to find. The Speer 135 (357Magnum flavor) runs less raw energy than the Golden Saber or DPX, but then again it has that typically reliable Gold Dot expansion. The GS125 and GD135 (both in 357) are likely in about the same ballpark in terms of effectiveness, maybe a slight nod to the GS. And the GS is likely the cheapest and easiest to find in this niche category.
These low-powered 357s are pretty decent as a basic concept. They're about as effective as the very best 9mm+Ps. If you have a smaller/lighter gun and don't want to drop all the way down to 38+P horsepower, the low-end 357s make sense, including the GS.
In 357, they're another attempt to make a slightly "de-tuned" 357 for the smaller guns. And it's not bad as such things go...has a little more heat on it than Speer's 135gr 357 "short barrel specialty load", about the same power as Cor-Bon's 125gr DPX.
If I wanted something in that class, and they do make a lot of sense in some situations, I think the DPX probably spanks the Golden Saber but the DPX is more expensive and hence harder to find. The Speer 135 (357Magnum flavor) runs less raw energy than the Golden Saber or DPX, but then again it has that typically reliable Gold Dot expansion. The GS125 and GD135 (both in 357) are likely in about the same ballpark in terms of effectiveness, maybe a slight nod to the GS. And the GS is likely the cheapest and easiest to find in this niche category.
These low-powered 357s are pretty decent as a basic concept. They're about as effective as the very best 9mm+Ps. If you have a smaller/lighter gun and don't want to drop all the way down to 38+P horsepower, the low-end 357s make sense, including the GS.
thanks, Jim, I agree with what you say. The Speer GD 38spec+p did only fair in my tests with the snubie, the Rem GS 38spec was a bit less than fair. Biggest drawback with GoldDots, in my tests, they always seem to expand a lot less than anything else. Either are better than nothing if that's all you've got. But also the reason I carry the Rem GS .357magnum in my S&W 360. I chose the little revolver over a pistol for something I could pocket carry but would have more 'firepower' than one of the popular mouseguns (which sell like hotcakes around here, POS IMO). There are a few 9mms that might be OK for pocket carry but I like my revolver better. Pros and cons with everything. Even a .357sig pistol has great ballistics but mine is just too darn big and heavy to carry. Tried a lot of others but I'll stick with my S&W.
Cheers,
og
Cheers,
og
Jim March nailed it.
GS 125gr .357's are the load of choice in my M&P 340. More zip than a .38+P, but I am comfortable with the recoil and follow up shots. It's pretty stout, don't get me wrong, but I worked my way up from .38's and am ok with it now.
"Real" .357's are out of the question in the Air Lite snubbys IMHO, so these make perfect sense.
GS 125gr .357's are the load of choice in my M&P 340. More zip than a .38+P, but I am comfortable with the recoil and follow up shots. It's pretty stout, don't get me wrong, but I worked my way up from .38's and am ok with it now.
"Real" .357's are out of the question in the Air Lite snubbys IMHO, so these make perfect sense.
The table that somebody linked to answers my question. I'm a bit surprised at how weak the 38+p Rem GS is, even out of a 4" barrel. Looks like the 38+p would really lose some heat out of a snub barrel. Sounds like the 357 Rem GS version has adequate ballistics, and I have found it to be very accurate out of my Ruger sp101 snub. The Rem GS 357 has been more consistently accurate than any other 357 variety I have tried, and I've gotten similar accuracy with the Speer GD short barrel 38+p and the Win Supreme Elite 38+p. Haven't tried Corbon DPX. Other mags I have tried (145 gr Win Silver tip, 158 gr Speer GD, Win White Box 110 gr) work much better out of my full-frame 4" s&w mod 19 with regard to accuracy. I'm sure recoil is the primary factor.