It'll be interesting to get to the bottom of this story:
http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/glock/gz-g35-40kb.html
http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/glock/gz-g35-40kb.html
Glock blows up!
- Thread starter capnrik
- Start date
PRETTY PICTURE
Safety glasses mandatory when shooting, ay? ALWAYS
Suggest ammo as critical culprit; not bashing any brand, but seen this type of blooey before.
Please think "case neck tension" or "cannelure". Certain brands offer one or both to ensure less chance of improper explosion.
Know what I mean?
Safety glasses mandatory when shooting, ay? ALWAYS
Suggest ammo as critical culprit; not bashing any brand, but seen this type of blooey before.
Please think "case neck tension" or "cannelure". Certain brands offer one or both to ensure less chance of improper explosion.
Know what I mean?
Unsupported Nonsense:
Here we see the chambers of three .40 caliber pistols. I hate that I had to spend an otherwise relaxing Sunday morning field-stripping pistols and taking pictures, but in pursuit of truth and beauty, sacrifices must be made.
When I saw the address to the link above, I had to wonder if the author was still riding the "unsupported chamber" horse. He is. He's ridden the poor beast far and hard, so it's gotta be tired.
I know it's going to sound to him like I am typing this between sips of Kool-Aid, but closer observation reveals that of the three chambers examined, the Glock exposes no more brass (at least to my crude measuring tools and untrained, non-gunzine writer eyes) than the SIG P-226 and less brass than the Beretta 96D. Also the chamber walls, while being somewhat thinner than the those of the SIG, are massively thicker than the Beretta's. Interestingly (again, to the best of my limited measuring ability) the chamber falls somewhere between the two in tightness, with the SIG exhibiting the most "play" of the three.
Yes, that Glock detonated (and other .40 cal Glocks have, too). However, based on what I've observed this morning, (and on many other occasions, with many other .40 cal donor pistols and better measuring equipment, when this topic has come up in the gun shop over the years), this "unsupported chamber" stuff is just that: unsupported.
The author will, no doubt, be along shortly with a basketful of ad hominems for me. It's not wise to mock Rosinante.
Here we see the chambers of three .40 caliber pistols. I hate that I had to spend an otherwise relaxing Sunday morning field-stripping pistols and taking pictures, but in pursuit of truth and beauty, sacrifices must be made.
When I saw the address to the link above, I had to wonder if the author was still riding the "unsupported chamber" horse. He is. He's ridden the poor beast far and hard, so it's gotta be tired.
I know it's going to sound to him like I am typing this between sips of Kool-Aid, but closer observation reveals that of the three chambers examined, the Glock exposes no more brass (at least to my crude measuring tools and untrained, non-gunzine writer eyes) than the SIG P-226 and less brass than the Beretta 96D. Also the chamber walls, while being somewhat thinner than the those of the SIG, are massively thicker than the Beretta's. Interestingly (again, to the best of my limited measuring ability) the chamber falls somewhere between the two in tightness, with the SIG exhibiting the most "play" of the three.
Yes, that Glock detonated (and other .40 cal Glocks have, too). However, based on what I've observed this morning, (and on many other occasions, with many other .40 cal donor pistols and better measuring equipment, when this topic has come up in the gun shop over the years), this "unsupported chamber" stuff is just that: unsupported.
The author will, no doubt, be along shortly with a basketful of ad hominems for me. It's not wise to mock Rosinante.
STOP THE MADNESS !
R-P 230g Golden Saber through Glocks is perfect.
"Unsupported Chamber" just means "not for feed-shortened cartridge NOW generating 100,000+ PSI."
Doesn't matter what brand; can blow up any gun. Know of (but did not physically touch) KB examples in H&K, Glock, Kimber, Ruger, SIG, and whatever Clark shoots.
R-P 230g Golden Saber through Glocks is perfect.
"Unsupported Chamber" just means "not for feed-shortened cartridge NOW generating 100,000+ PSI."
Doesn't matter what brand; can blow up any gun. Know of (but did not physically touch) KB examples in H&K, Glock, Kimber, Ruger, SIG, and whatever Clark shoots.
Why the author keeps harping on unsupported case head is beyone me in this instance.
If you look at the pictures you can clearly see a failure of the case head, but that is secondary to the other damage to the pistol. Had it just been a case head failure we would have seen a a direct blowdown of the gases into the magwell as well as a cartrige casing indicating JUST a case head failure.
The pictures show a couple of items indicating and excessively overpressure round.
1. The primer is completely blown out of the primer pocket. You can also see an enlarging of the primer pocket hole and irregular shape from the gasses venting in that direction.
2. A lateral split of the chamber section. Again if we have just a simple case head failure the gasses would escape downward into the magazine well, causing damage in that area. Instead we see the pressures generated splitting the steel of the chamber section.
And one last note...maybe I'm crazy...BUT PICTURES DON'T MATCH!
Look at the first picture and the last picture in the series. The last picture shows the peeled away case head section almost completely blocking the feedramp. The first only shows a small section partially blocking the feedramp. But then maybe my eyeballs are screwed in wrong today.
Good Shooting
RED
If you look at the pictures you can clearly see a failure of the case head, but that is secondary to the other damage to the pistol. Had it just been a case head failure we would have seen a a direct blowdown of the gases into the magwell as well as a cartrige casing indicating JUST a case head failure.
The pictures show a couple of items indicating and excessively overpressure round.
1. The primer is completely blown out of the primer pocket. You can also see an enlarging of the primer pocket hole and irregular shape from the gasses venting in that direction.
2. A lateral split of the chamber section. Again if we have just a simple case head failure the gasses would escape downward into the magazine well, causing damage in that area. Instead we see the pressures generated splitting the steel of the chamber section.
And one last note...maybe I'm crazy...BUT PICTURES DON'T MATCH!
Look at the first picture and the last picture in the series. The last picture shows the peeled away case head section almost completely blocking the feedramp. The first only shows a small section partially blocking the feedramp. But then maybe my eyeballs are screwed in wrong today.
Good Shooting
RED
Will Beararms
New member
Life is a risk. Weigh the costs and move forward. Unfortunately, there is no foolproof handgun. Carry what you are comfortable with and be happy.
I have gravitated away from the .40 in lieu of the 9mm Makarov, .357, .38 Plus P, 9mm Plus P and .380 ACP but it is due to economics and if you look around at actual shootings, it's clear that the .40 is an excellent round in terms of stopping power.
If a Glock scares you, stay away from em' but there are plenty out there that never miss a beat.
I have gravitated away from the .40 in lieu of the 9mm Makarov, .357, .38 Plus P, 9mm Plus P and .380 ACP but it is due to economics and if you look around at actual shootings, it's clear that the .40 is an excellent round in terms of stopping power.
If a Glock scares you, stay away from em' but there are plenty out there that never miss a beat.
It's already been discussed fully here...
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=92370
There'e a serious problem with that round if it went and blew the Primer clean out
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=92370
There'e a serious problem with that round if it went and blew the Primer clean out
Fred Hansen
New member
Alright,
Who gave the wild pomeranian the formula for nitro? You can't be letting just anyone have that you know.
Who gave the wild pomeranian the formula for nitro? You can't be letting just anyone have that you know.
its the caliber
I am not a glock head but in all fairness to the weapon it must be understood that in the past year alone it was published in one of the shooting magazines (i think it was Combat Handguns) that a Browning High Power and also a Ruger automatic all blew up in 40 S&W caliber. I believe that this caliber can take no bullet set back whatsover without extremely dangerous pressures developing and blowing the guns up. It will be interesting to see when the final count is in if one brand of pistol has blown up in significantly more numbers than other brands in this caliber.
I am not a glock head but in all fairness to the weapon it must be understood that in the past year alone it was published in one of the shooting magazines (i think it was Combat Handguns) that a Browning High Power and also a Ruger automatic all blew up in 40 S&W caliber. I believe that this caliber can take no bullet set back whatsover without extremely dangerous pressures developing and blowing the guns up. It will be interesting to see when the final count is in if one brand of pistol has blown up in significantly more numbers than other brands in this caliber.
I have commented on this incident on another board but will repeat what I think is relevant information.
A good friend of mine is a gunsmith and factory trained armor for most of the major arms makers (S&W, Colt, Remington, Ruger, Glock, SIG, Baretta, and probably some more I can't remember). He showed me a memo he received that was put out by several of these companies jointly (I think it was Ruger, Baretta and SIG). It warned department armorers and gunsmiths that in the 40 S&W cartridge, bullet setback of as little as .030" could double chamber pressure.
With the 35,000 psi 40 S&W that could turn into a 70,000 psi pipe bomb, no matter the make or model of gun in use.
A good friend of mine is a gunsmith and factory trained armor for most of the major arms makers (S&W, Colt, Remington, Ruger, Glock, SIG, Baretta, and probably some more I can't remember). He showed me a memo he received that was put out by several of these companies jointly (I think it was Ruger, Baretta and SIG). It warned department armorers and gunsmiths that in the 40 S&W cartridge, bullet setback of as little as .030" could double chamber pressure.
With the 35,000 psi 40 S&W that could turn into a 70,000 psi pipe bomb, no matter the make or model of gun in use.
Being a factory new round, and having a considerable amount of the powder burning out the primer hole, setback could be detected by a microscopic inspection of the case mouth.
Any of you out there, who have in their possession a G17/19 and a G35, disassemble them and measure the exterior dimensions of the chamber. Post the measurements on this thread.
Thank You
Waterdog
Any of you out there, who have in their possession a G17/19 and a G35, disassemble them and measure the exterior dimensions of the chamber. Post the measurements on this thread.
Thank You
Waterdog
Kirk Keller
New member
Glock 236
Has an excellent point regarding the primer. It may however have occurred that, upon separating the chamber, the support for the primer was removed and that is why the primer popped. While the primer is indeed snugly fitted into the case, it is also supported by the metal around the firing pin. Once this was blown out of kilter by the exploding chamber, that support was removed.
It'll be interesting to find out which came first, the chicken (exploding chamber) or the egg (popped primer). I think they'll have a very difficult time determining what exactly happened and in what sequence.
So There's the kaBoom!... I wonder if it was earth-shattering...
Has an excellent point regarding the primer. It may however have occurred that, upon separating the chamber, the support for the primer was removed and that is why the primer popped. While the primer is indeed snugly fitted into the case, it is also supported by the metal around the firing pin. Once this was blown out of kilter by the exploding chamber, that support was removed.
It'll be interesting to find out which came first, the chicken (exploding chamber) or the egg (popped primer). I think they'll have a very difficult time determining what exactly happened and in what sequence.
So There's the kaBoom!... I wonder if it was earth-shattering...
I've been thinking lately the Glock kBoom problem might have more to do with feed reliability and the ability to fire out of battery.
1. Glock will fire an 1/8th inch or so out of battery. As this is demonstratable I hope there aren't going to be any arguements.
2. The majority of kaBooms occur with the least feed reliable cartridge Glock chambers - .40. With the same overall length of 9mm, .40 features a wider/ longer case and steeply angled ogive. The feed ramps on .40 barrels are much steeper as well. The most feed reliable cartridge, 9mm, exhibits just about zero reported kaBooms.
If a .40 round is having trouble getting into the chamber, it may not jam the gun up completely. Instead, it may just slow the slide down enough that when the round comes to rest the slide doesn't have enough force to go completely into battery. The gun will still fire, the action unlock early and the case head fails because chamber pressures are too high.
In support of this, I would be curious how clean some kaBoom pistols were just before incident. It would also be interesting to note point of impact of the last shot (it would be high, if I'm correct). This theory fits well with the increased incidence with reloads, since case bulging is a fairly common occurance that would also affect feeding.
Not saying I'm right, just putting out a theory for review.
1. Glock will fire an 1/8th inch or so out of battery. As this is demonstratable I hope there aren't going to be any arguements.
2. The majority of kaBooms occur with the least feed reliable cartridge Glock chambers - .40. With the same overall length of 9mm, .40 features a wider/ longer case and steeply angled ogive. The feed ramps on .40 barrels are much steeper as well. The most feed reliable cartridge, 9mm, exhibits just about zero reported kaBooms.
If a .40 round is having trouble getting into the chamber, it may not jam the gun up completely. Instead, it may just slow the slide down enough that when the round comes to rest the slide doesn't have enough force to go completely into battery. The gun will still fire, the action unlock early and the case head fails because chamber pressures are too high.
In support of this, I would be curious how clean some kaBoom pistols were just before incident. It would also be interesting to note point of impact of the last shot (it would be high, if I'm correct). This theory fits well with the increased incidence with reloads, since case bulging is a fairly common occurance that would also affect feeding.
Not saying I'm right, just putting out a theory for review.
I believe the problem is with "setback" as there
is a small margin of error in the 40 with the
180gr bullet,(oal).
Most kabooms I have read or heard of have been
with the 180gr bullet and the Glock. I have seen
thousands of rounds fired from Beretta 96 (155gr)
with no problems.
I reload for the 40 and use only 155 gr bullets,
never really liked the round until i purchased a
cz40b.
Not to upset anyone but my feeling is the 40 will
not stand the test of time because of this problem. Years ago I seen the 220swift go through
some of the same arguments, over pressure, short
bore life,etc much was due to overloading for
the magic 4,000+fps,but in time the 22-250 become
more popular.
Just some thoughts, be safe and enjoy.
is a small margin of error in the 40 with the
180gr bullet,(oal).
Most kabooms I have read or heard of have been
with the 180gr bullet and the Glock. I have seen
thousands of rounds fired from Beretta 96 (155gr)
with no problems.
I reload for the 40 and use only 155 gr bullets,
never really liked the round until i purchased a
cz40b.
Not to upset anyone but my feeling is the 40 will
not stand the test of time because of this problem. Years ago I seen the 220swift go through
some of the same arguments, over pressure, short
bore life,etc much was due to overloading for
the magic 4,000+fps,but in time the 22-250 become
more popular.
Just some thoughts, be safe and enjoy.
OkieCruffler
New member
Well, this thread hasn't changed my opinion on Glocks (wasn't fond of them before, not fond of them now), but it sure has changed my mind on adding a .40 to my collection. Any time I see an empty primer pocket like that, I think ammo problem, not gun problem.