Glock 29 10mm or Taurus Tracker .357/.41?

D

DougB

New member
I've read the "bear gun" debates, and even posted a question awhile back about a good handgun for canoeing/rafting/fishing. I want a gun that is:

1) Highly water (rust) resistant.
2) Suitable for defense against black bear.
3) As compact and light-weight as possible.

Recently my natural resistance to Glocks is starting to wear down. I never cared for the more-or-less DAO trigger and lack of safety. But a friend has been talking up the 10mm to me, and I have to admit that it sounds like a good cartridge for this purpose. The Glock 29 looks like my best option here. Its even starting to LOOK good to me.

The other gun I'm considering is the new Taurus Titanium tracker (either 7-shot .357 or 5-shot .41 mag). But the compact Glock 29 10mm would give me 11 ready shots, and performance somewhere between the .357 and the .41 mag (or maybe almost equal to the .41 in a short barreled handgun?).

Is the Glock 29 mostly stainless (including the barrel)? Is it brutal to shoot? Is the 10mm a good cartridge for this purpose?

Finally, as a "red herring", I've seen the Whitness autos in 10mm recommended. Is there a 10mm whitness with polymer frame and rust-resistant metal? I like the SA/DA capability and the safety on the Whitness (CZ75 clone) pistols. Thanks.

Doug
 
Automatics have no place as a woods defense weapon, especially when it comes to defending from critters with claws and teeth. A double action wheel gun that goes bang every time you squeeze the trigger is the only way to go. The 10mm cartridge with all its hype is not going to compete ballistically to a .41 Magnum. A .357 Magnum would also be a poor choice when it comes to defending yourself from a angry animal. Stick to what is known to work, 41, 44 and 45.

Robert
 
For bears, I would carry a good rifle like a 45/70. Short of that, I would carry a good handgun like the 454cassul!!!

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BOYCOTT SMITH AND WESSON!!!
Defend the Constitution from the foreign threat!!!!
 
5.5" Redhawk, 3" GP100, M20.


Black bear can be difficult to stop (when you're scared LOL).

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
I have a Glock model 29, with a high cap magazine (15 shots) as well as the standard magazines. It is a good workning gun so far, I like the feel of it, as well as the trigger pull. You can get very stout loadings in the 10mm, although not quite up to the best loadings in a 41 magnum. I considered getting the 41 magnum taurus tracker, but decided instead on the GLock 29, although I still might purchase the tracker at some later date.
 
The Glock 29 isn't stainless, but the steel is coated with Tenifer which is a highly corrosion resistant coating.

Against something like a bear a rifle is always preferable, but sometimes the rifle isn't immediately deployable. The handgun is worn, not carried, so it won't be leaned against a tree or left in the camp. Personally, I'd go with the Glock. Twice the ammo capacity for a marginally less effective cartridge is a good bet. I'd also carry a bear-defense pepper spray. It may not be necessary to kill the bear, just drive it off. That said, practice with the spray in the non-dominant hand so the dominant hand can hold the gun.
 
Keep in mind that the Taurus Tracker is ported, which reduces muzzle velocity.

A .41 magnum from a ported 4inch barreled
revolver is about equal in power to the 3.8 inch barreled Glock 29.

The Glock 29 would offer superior firepower in a bear defense situation. 10 rounds in the magazine plus two spare magazines would give you a better chance of survival than 5 shots of .41 magnum from a ported barreled revolver.

Glock handguns consist of polymer and tennifer coated steel, which provides corrosion resistance that is difficult to beat.
 
The best "published" load for 10mm is a 200 grain bullet traveling at 1200 FPS. And that is fired from a full size firearm (6 inches) and equals about 618 pound feet of energy or a 13.7 TKO.

A 41 Magnum 215 LSWC fired from a full size firearm (again, 6 inches) travel at about 1600 FPS and that translates to about 1300 pound feet of energy or about a 20.0 TKO. That is almost twice the power of a 10mm!

A 200 grain bullet in a 10mm provides the best ballistics available. Velocity there after falls off sharply, providing less energy with heavier bullets. For a 41 magnum, that threshold does not hit until about 260 grains. Heavier bullet provide much deeper penetration. The 10mm does poorly in thick skin, big boned targets.

A 41 Magnum can propel a 265 grain bullet at over 1350 FPS. That is enough power to drop any game in North America.

It is time that we rid ourselves of this myth, 10mm ain't no 41 Magnum. Not by a long shot. Have both cartridges in the same platform ( Smith & Wesson 6 1/2" N frames) and I must admit that the 10 has potential. Deer size game beware, but larger big boned animals, no way. It's just not there.

BTW I have been attacked by these critters with claws and teeth. They strike so fast that you will be lucky if you can see them coming. The idea of shooting a entire magazine at a animal is pure fantasy. One or two opportunities is all you are going to get, if that.

Robert
 
Robert,the question was about a choice between a Taurus Tracker and a Glock 29. The S&W Model 58 was not listed as an option. Obviously a longer barrel will make the round more effective. But as DVC pointed out, a 4" ported barrel is not the same as a 6" unported barrel. I would be very surprised to see the ballistics you quoted come from the Tracker.

Also, he's talking about black bears, not 2000 lb. salmon-guzzling kodiaks. A black bear weighs slightly more than a human. They're not armor plated. A 10mm fired into the mouth or nasal cavity shouldn't have any problem penetrating the brain cavity.
 
Forty-one Magnum guns are stronger than 44 or 45. Most all 41 Magnum guns can handle pressures at the maximum, 42,000 CUP. That is also the industry standard for this caliber and most ALL firearms today meet that standard. The only question would be, can the Total Titanium barrel handle a heavy lead bullet at full power, without separating the barrel from the liner.

The data I was providing was using full size, true 6 inch barrels. No auto is true to size, they incorporate the chamber in the barrel size. A 10mm of the size of a G29 would lose about 200 FPS from the data provided. The 41 Magnum fired from a Tracker, maybe 300 FPS. If those assumptions are made, the 41 Magnum still has 50% more power than the 10.

It is amazing to see a angry animal hit multiple time and behave as though it had not been hit at all. When that happens to you, it tends to make you lose confidence in medium size cartridges fast.

Robert

[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited April 13, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DougB:
Its even starting to LOOK good to me.
[/quote]

Uh-oh. Now you're on your way to being hooked on Glocks! The 29 rocks. An argument can be made that with additional bbls & mags, it's the most versatile handgun on the planet.
 
I agree with Robertthe 41MagFan. First, the hi cap mag as opposed to the five or six rounds in a revolver is moot. If a black bear charges you, I assure you, you will NOT have time to get off ten or eleven rounds. If a bear comes at you, he/she will come low, head up and mouth open, and you'd better get that one or two up into the nose/mouth area so that bullet channels up into the brain.

Several years ago, I killed a 400 lb black bear in the central Sierra of Calif., using a S&W 57, six inch barrel in .41 Mag. I was using my handload, 210 gr JHP Sierra, with H110 powder (nope, won't list the grains as I load 'em kinda warm, which works fine in my 57.) I was on a guided hunt with pros, dogs, and the bear we'd chased for five hours was about 20 yards up in a bull pine.

One round through and through, lung and heart shot. But both guides (partners) were carrying .41 Mags and their helper who was also handling the dogs, was carrying a Ruger SBH .44 Mag. Other than the chase through some incredibly rough country, the kill itself was not difficult.

That said, if the bear had been able to charge, and if I'd been by myself, I'd have been trying to get that bullet up into the brain of that bear. A semi-auto would have been of no real benefit.

Have a Marlin lever in .41 mag, and the two guns together make a real nice combo. FWIW.
J.B.
 
Black bears don't normally charge from your blind side and bite off your head. Often a predatory blackie will walk slowly, following you, sizing you up, and may slowly follow you for 20 minutes or more. Do not lay down and play dead in this situation, you will be offering yourself as a sacrifice. During this time before the bear attacks is the time to dissuade the bear by giving it some negative consequenses for it's behavior. Hitting it with a thrown rock or stick, yelling loudly, or using pepper spray can send the bear on it's way. Some will not be dissuaded and you can get a good aimed up close shot at the bear, that is when I'd rather dump a magazine of 10mm into the bear's head and do a quick reload, than have only 5 41 mag shots to depend on before becoming lunch. Failing that, the old saying comes into play..."Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you." :)
 
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