Glock 17 storm lake threaded barrel

S

Sabre9mm

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I went today to break in my new G17 purchased for mounting a new suppressor.


http://www.midwayusa.com/product/21...s-steel-threaded-muzzle-with-thread-protector



no problems with function, cycled flawlessly in controlled shooting, and 2 mags as fast as I could pull the trigger, but something strange in downrange performance...

at 30' all 17 rounds in about a 5" group, not bad considering it was the first time I had shot it, I consider that lethal accuracy, and chalked the larger groups to inexperience with it (I have shot my XDM & XDS almost exclusively for the last year)

But when I moved the target back another 10', not only did I get consistent fliers 8-10" groups, I got wat seemed to be case fragments , smaller irregular holes scattered around the target, and I have never seen anything like this with any handgun I have ever fired :confused:

backed it up to 30' same results on accuracy, move it out to 40' same inaccuracy and strange bits of debris...

at 50' I was barely on target at all, and still getting debris.

I can only blame it on ammo or barrel, since I do nto shoot this way with my other handguns, and 10' is not enough to toss me of that bad, it seemed like past about 30' they simply went nuts (Spinning apart or out of control or both?)

Shooting this ammo (200 rounds total)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/9mm-100-Round-GMJ-Ammunition-Pack/22027232

which I have 1000's of rounds of, used in my XDM 4.5 and XDS 3.3, and never had any issues.

Can this barell really be spinning the things apart, or shoudl I suspect something else?

I would have tested more ammo, but it is all I brought with me today.
 
Since you have 1000's of rounds of that ammo I am assuming you bought all or some of it from the same lot, so since you aren't having problems with it in your other guns that shouldn't be the problem.

Do you have the original 17 barrel that came with the gun? I would throw that back in and see what kind of results you get, if it shoots fine with the stock barrel than that only leaves the Storm Lake barrel to blame. They do make quality stuff, if there is a problem with it I bet they will take care of you.
 
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Thank you....

Yes, I bought it 4 or 5 boxes at a time here and there until I had a large quantity built up, it was the cheapest per round at the time, and good range fodder, I do still have the stock barrel, never even fired, and I have much higher quality ammo (or at least more expensive) Going to go give both a test tomorrow if possible, I have heard of bullets over spinning and fragmenting, but that reliably, made me think I was seriously losing my mind. And that big of a difference in 10' length, I could not even fathom how to one could design a round to fail that way intentionally, much less consistently because of cheap design... I would own a few rounds off on changing 10' as I am no competition shooter, but not a repeatable failure.

That barrel was half again the price of the gun, I hope if that is it they would honor some sort of quality standard.:cool:

If it was spinning off the jackets, they were still spinning straight forward, none of the rounds seem to have keyholed (my knowledge of correct round speed, mass, etc for a given length and twist rate is very limited) but the target had round holes in it other than the fragments (I have pictures of these small holes if that helps, but since they were not whole bullets, fragments are the only logical explanation)

However I could see if they lost part of the jackets and were spiing fast that could have definitely caused some sort of drift in trajectory.. But still 10' without hitting anything but airspace?? It just does not seem possible, but hey if I knew I would not ask, right?
 
it is an indoor range, yes, but no where near the back wall, I can send it back just a little over 100'. Likewise the impacts came from the front of the target as the hole was punched inward from the front side. After you said that I was thinking could they be someone next to me skipping one or something, but they corresponded to *my* shots.

And again, look how far off target, seriously I cannot say I am sniper material with a handgun, but 10' forward I was barely if ever outside the second black ring from center with all 17 rounds, and at 40' I have 5 OFF target entirely and way off at that.

The range is right down the road from my office, I brought some Remington FMJ http://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...unition-9mm-luger-115-grain-full-metal-jacket

and some JHP same make and mass, along with the stock barrel.

Hopefully will know more in a few hours.

Thanks for input.
 

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well that was what I call results...

It is not the barrel, it was the ammunition + the barrel, and after discussing with the gunsmith at the local range at length, it made perfect sense. And then testing it getting the exact results he predicted, I have little room to argue.

So let me bounce that *perfect sense* off some other people and see if it made perfect sense because I knew no better or it made perfect sense because it just was logical.

I can randomly select rounds from the box, and duplicate the results with the G17 and Storm Lake barrel, and then randomly select from the same box, then shoot accurately with my XDM.

I did not test the factory barrel, because I could make the issue stop with an ammunition change, again, reliably.

He told me that what was happening in the cheaper federal ammo, is that the jacket was VERY thin, as well, it did not cover the whole round, Id est open in the back.

I can verify this with the federal, I can cut through the jacket with my pocket knife, like it was almost copper painted vs jacketed. On the Remington, I get a gouge in the copper, it must be 10-15x thicker.

As this round is forced through the storm lake barrel which is a slightly tighter fit than the XDM has (both are match grade) and combined with a different rifling in the barrel...

He said this causes the jacket to actually fail before it exits the barrel, and then when it exits, we have two problems, the jacket is compromised, and the lead from the rear of the bullet was actually spraying on the crown of the barrel.

That somewhere down range due to spin and cheap jacket design the jacket shreds off, the bullet suffers aerodynamically, and we have exactly what I described. He said people have asked the same questions before.

With both Remington ammunition types, I had no strays, no accuracy issues, no lead build up on the crown (which I just noticed I forgot to mention earlier) and barely noticeable difference in groups between 30, 40, 50, and even 60'

(obviously my groups degraded some as I went out, but only what I will own as needing more practice, not inexplicable voodoo)

And out of 100 rounds not a single fragment, just nice round holes, and crown had nothing but carbon residue on it.

So I cannot blame the ammo as "being bad" it shoots fine from my XDM, nor the barrel or glock for "being bad" as they reliably consume other ammo and still shoot accurately.

Just note to self, these two items do not mix well...
 
Fire some of those bullets into something that will capture them and you can see if the jackets are shredding.

It still sounds doubtful to me
 
What do you suggest? Because I would love confirmation, if nothing else to grab a pic and attach tot his post for posterity.

I no longer have an outdoor range membership and live in a residential area.

When I get my can, i could conceivably fire it into some 5g buckets of water with my lawnmower running... But that does not A:sound all that safe, and B: assure I will catch one (Will a 5g bucket of water catch one, cause fales results because of the impact with the water, would going through the plastic affect the test?)

If I knew someone with some ballistics gel and a place to do it, I would gladly, any volunteers near Tyler TX?
 
I shoot Federal aluminum case ammo a lot, out to 25 yards (75 feet)with no jacket failure, and good accuracy, but never out of a Storm Lake Barrel.

It could just be the rifling in that barrel causing the problem.
 
Hmmm, or I could just make one of these , it looks like the rounds they fired were not terribly damaged by the sand, and I could at least do comparison tests between these and other rounds. Again I would have to wait for my can to do it, because otherwise neighbors would be calling 911 for sure, I would :eek:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot7.htm
 
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