Glock 17 and Limp Wrists

G

Glock_man

New member
My buddy just bought a G17 but he was having problems with the casings fully ejecting out. We have noticed that the problem is that he has limp/weak wrists. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions about what he could do. Like myself he is a criminal justice major and shooting and hand guns will be a big aspect of his life and career, so i hate to see him struggle.
Thanks

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when the govenment comes for you weapons, give them the ammo first.
AOL IM name: heathersman40
 
I've never limp-wristed any of my pistols, but to improve my grip I carry one of those grip exercisers you can pick up at Target or Wal-Mart. I carry it with me at work, and just squeeze until I get tired, and switch hands. It's a little springie thing with foam grips, about $10.
 
Personally I'd say he needs to shoot a lot more often !
200/300rns per week should help.
"Weak" wrist muscles ?
Ask a doctor if this phsyically possible.
It's a cop out for people who just don't hold a gun correctly/firmly enough.
Not being a smarty here, it's just that a heck of a lot of shooting combined with some GOOD coaching should cure his "whimp wristing".


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"The Gun from Down Under !"
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This is a problem for some shooters. I have a male student who can't shoot any semi auto for that reason. It is not a gun thing, but a shooter thing. Often an injury or just unique muscle forumulation will cause it. It can also combine a gun and shooter problem because of the design of the grip.
This brings about a serious problem if the gun is for self-defense use. Often a switch as suttle as going from a G17 to a G19 can do it. It doesn't take much. He should try other designs and if he has the problem with several guns he is one of the rare that can't reliabily fire a semi auto.
Also make sure the elbows are NOT bent as this gives a flexing action. It looks cool to have the right elbow bent, but you can actually watch the gun going into excessive recoil motion with most shooters and more so with the smaller sized shooters.
In actual self-defense we are finding a failure rate of semiautos of about 20%. In self-defense it is common to fire guns at odd or unusual angles and semi autos can easily fail when fired in such positions.
Let us know what he finds out. But be sure to tell him to try other guns.
 
Try a 9mm Ruger and see if he has problems with that.

Let us know.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
I was going to suggest a SIG Sauer P226 or P228. Have hom try these at a rental and see if limp wristing is a problem then. Polymer frame pistols require a very firm grip to prevent the type of malfunction you describe.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
I have a suggestion: why doesn't he try to lock his wrists? that would stop limp wristing. he should squeeze the gun till his hands are trembling and then loosen his grip till he stops shaking. and alway have your wrists locked when shooting handgun.
 
I noticed that limp-wristing is more common with certain designs. For example, for me, I can induce stoppages much more easily with Glocks, 1911s (particularly light-weight frames) and CZs whereas H&K USP Compacts, Beretta 92FSs and SIGs are very difficult to cause stoppages with intentional limp-wristing.

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
One more thing:

I was under the impression that bent elbows help control recoil, no?

What are the pro's and con's of bent as opposed to stright (or locked) elbows in pistol shooting?

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
Skorzeny, In combat shooting is is often better ot lock out the elbows and absorb the recoil with the shoulders. Quicker time back on target and more resistance for autos to operate off of. Big magnum revolvers maybe or hunting but not combat. And if you do need to bend the elbows, firm grip and squeeze.
PS - Did you try any different ammo to be sure your practice ammo wasnt old and weak?
 
I agree with pluspinc and tecolote. My experience with sig large framed 220 9mm is that you have to limb wrist it to be accurate. With glocks you tend to lock everything more or less to be more accurate.
 
Chaho,

"My experience with sig large framed 220 9mm is that you have to limb wrist it to be accurate."

Not sure what you mean. I think SIG Sauers are more tolerant of so-called limp wristing, but they still require a firm hold. A loose hold will lead to inaccurate shots.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
Tell your friend "Get rid of that Tenifer-plated sissy pistol and get yourself a SMITH AND WESSON..."
(what Tommy Lee Jones will say in the sequel)
:D!!!

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When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; IT IS that they shall be destroyed forever...Psalms 92.7

[This message has been edited by Jhp147 (edited March 01, 2000).]
 
tecolote, when I lock my arm, wrist and get a firm grip on my G19 I tend to be more accurate than my SIG 220 9mm. And when I losen up and relaxe with the Sig I tend to shoot better than when I losen up and relax with the G19. I tried both guns using at least five different factory ammo and all with the same conlclusions. Strange ! I will try again this weekend. Do you have any suggestions ?
 
Chaho,

Here's my uniformed guess of what might be happening. Since Glock and SIG Sauers have different grip angles, perhaps the former fits your hand better than the latter. By relaxing your grip on the SIG Sauer you in effect are over-compensating for poor hand fit. If you clasp your hands together as if holding a pistol and assume a shooting position, you'll get a natural shooting aim. Notice the position of your clasped hands. Now, making sure pistols are unloaded and removing the magazine (just to make doubly sure), take the same shooting position with your Glock. Is the grip the same as with no pistol or is it different? Do the same with the SIG Sauer. Which pistol alters your natural grip the least? From your description I would guess that the Glock fits your hand the best. In my case it's SIG Sauers that fit better.

I consider pistol to hand fit one of the most critical yet often over looked keys to shooting. I learned a real easy way to determine proper fit. Once again making sure pistols are unloaded to the following. Place a target on the wall and grip the unloaded Glock as if shooting. Relax your hands and have them at waist level. Close our eyes and slowly raise the Glock and stop when you think you're level with the center of the target. Now open your eyes, the pistol sights should be level, discrepancies for windage are OK. Do the same with the SIG Sauer. The pistol that levels the best is the one that fits your hand better.

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So many pistols, so little money.

[This message has been edited by Tecolote (edited March 02, 2000).]
 
All good suggestions. But if your friend tries to lock his wrists and can't get 'em firm enough (it DOES happen and it's nothing to be ashamed of as long as you're ready to fix it) there are lots of ways to make wrists, forearms and grip stronger.

First of all, those grippers someone mentioned are probably good enough for your friend if he can't lock up enough to shoot a G17 well. Once you get a decent level of strength built up, http://www.ironmind.com sells REAL grippers :D -- the trainer models start out at 90 lbs. There are only 4 models. If you can close #3 with one hand you get to be a "Captain of Crush" of whom there are only about 10-15. If you can close #4 hurry and call Ironmind because Joe Kinney is the only man known to be able to do it so far!

Newspapers are another good way, crazy as it sounds. If you spend five minutes on each hand each day doing nothing but laying a sheet of newsprint flat and crumpling it up with one hand, you'll end up with a pretty good grip.

You can also make a good "roller" for cheap. Tie a rope or twine to the center of a short piece of pipe, then tie a weight of some kind to the other end. Then you just slowly wind the weight up and down by turning the pipe using both hands. The higher you can stand to make the weight hang farther, the better.

Farmer walks will also help. If your friend lifts weights it'll be easy. Just pick up a pair of heavy dumbbells, get your grip the way you want it, and start walking. When you absolutely can't hold 'em up anymore you're done. You only need to do this a couple of times a week.

If you want to know more, check out http://www.ironmind.com and http://www.cyberpump.com . Each has good info on grip strength.
 
thanks, I did the test a few times going back and forth between SIG and Glock. Sig is more on target but glock fits my hand better. I will report from the range this weekend. I think when I tense up with both guns and not relaxed I shoot the glock more accurate.
 
"Pro's" means TARGET shooting. Don't confuse that with combat shooting. Also we video taped shooters using both methods. Muzzle and gun movement is excessive with bent elbows and greatly slows the shooting and control of the gun. Using athletic designed software and showing the arms as stick figures you clearly see excessive movement thus decreased accuracy.
It is NATURAL in real life shootings for shooters regardless of training to shoot with arms fully extended or darn close to it. Why fight genetics. Enough problems without that. Do what is easiest and requires the least thought.
 
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