'Global Action on Gun Violence' to take on US gun makers

[DaleA]

Jonathan Lowy, the former chief legal counsel at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, who on Oct. 26 will announce the formation of a new lobbying group, Global Action on Gun Violence, focused on taking on gunmakers on behalf of foreign governments.

Unbelievable.

After the Mexican government's suit against U.S. gunmakers was thrown out, this group pops up.

Similar to how after the Supreme Court ruled against New York they passed even MORE unconstitutional laws.

It's like a game of Whack-a-Mole.

Hopefully anything this group does will get whacked too but does the nonsense NEVER stop?

You can read about the above here:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/f...vid=35b9225a517d4aaa8efaa0dd34c3c26d#comments

 

[Aguila Blanca]

It's like a game of Whack-a-Mole.

Hopefully anything this group does will get whacked too but does the nonsense NEVER stop?

No, it won't stop. It's called "Death by a thousand cuts." Whack-a-mole is as good a metaphor as any. They'll keep chipping away, trying one angle after another. Unfortunately, we can't relax -- not even for a nanosecond.

 

[44 AMP]

It's called "Death by a thousand cuts."

Its also called a scam. Not exactly an illegal one but still a scam, because all they are promising is to lobby for not to deliver anything real.

Seems to me that the former chief legal counsel for the Brady Group ought to know that. (unless he is now the former chief legal counsel because he was fired for being incompetent)

HE, and the rest of who ever staffs the new lobbying effort KNOW that no case brought by a foreign nation has any standing against US gunmakers who obey US law. So, they will be collecting their paychecks (and probably fat ones) from idealistic dupes who have been conned into thinking that giving them money to do this will make the world a better place.

Not illegal (I think) but absolutely unethical (I'm sure) OF course, I could be wrong, but right now, I doubt it...

 

[armoredman]

Any foreign government who gives these idiots money is a sucker - they can't win. And Whack A Mole is perfect for gun grabbers, which is why we keep winning a little bit at a time, only to have them jump on it like a vulture on roadkill.

 

[ballardw]

At least the acronym for the group is sort of appropriate: GAGV. just drop the V when talking about it.

 

[Tom Servo]

The same types of guns used for mass shootings in the U.S. are often used by cartels in Mexico

No they aren't. The vast majority of guns in the hands of the cartels come from two sources:

• guns our government issued to various belligerent parties during the Cold War, which made their way to the cartels over time (anyone remember the Reagan-era "revolution in a box" air drops?)
• guns sold by our government to the Mexican army, which are stolen by recruits planted by the cartels

In both cases, those are actual assault rifles, not the semi-automatic clones civilians buy at retail here. When machine guns are affordable and readily available on local gray markets, there's no reason to spend the money and take the risk smuggling a couple of Bushmaster carbines across the border.

Back around 2009, the President, Vice President, and Secretary of State were all making a claim that 74% of all guns confiscated at Mexican crime scenes came from American gun dealers. This was patently false, and even the ATF called shenanigans on it.

It turns out that 74% of guns submitted to the ATF for tracing could be verified to have come from the US. When the Federales bust up a drug house, they're not submitting Chinese AK-47s, Russian SKS rifles, or European submachine guns. But if there's one old S&W revolver in the giant pile of ordinance, that gets submitted. If the ATF gets a hit on it, then 100% of crime guns submitted to them came from the US.

So, that number means the ATF can verify that 74% of American guns came from the US. Bang-up job, guys.

It's also worth mentioning that this statistic was one of the factors used to "justify" gun-walking efforts like Operation Fast & Furious, which led to the ATF allowing over 2,500 guns to fall into the hands of the Sinaloa cartel.

So there's that. Now, is Lowy really going to help these lawsuits in any tangible way? Probably not. Why is he doing it? To keep his failing organization in the news and justify the money the Joyce Foundation still funnels through them.

 

[44 AMP]

It turns out that 74% of guns submitted to the ATF for tracing could be verified to have come from the US.

Absolutely true, and there's something else to remember, which is that the US contains the companies and factories that made a lot of the guns in world wide circulation. Mexico does not have a significant firearms industry. Nor do many other countries. Who are the world's recognized arms making nations? The US, several nations in Europe, and those former communist nations which had arms factories set up by the Soviet or ChiCom block.

Odds are really high that any gun found in the hands of cartels, rebels, warlords, or terrorists was made in one of those places.

The implication that the US makers (or US government) knowingly and willingly sold or gave guns to arm the "bad guys" is a lie, pushed for by those with an anti gun agenda. Even the "Fast and Furious" project was claimed to have been done for "noble" reasons, though it was done stupidly, and badly and the only real result was that our govt was complicit in allowing arms to reach the bad guys, in actual violation of our laws.

 

[gwpercle]

It's all part of a plan to get firearms out of the hands of Americans .
People are much easier to controll when they are unarmed ...
In fact , my Dad a WWII veteran has always told me the first step in tryanny is to disarm the people ... after they were disarmed they were easy to get on the trains and taken to the labor camps ... and then worked to death or brought to the showers .
He told me to never give up my guns ... and By God I will Not .
Gary

 

[Tom Servo]

The implication that the US makers (or US government) knowingly and willingly sold

Actually, in Fast & Furious, gun dealers were the attempted scapegoat. The ATF was pressuring dealers to release guns to suspicious buyers so they could somehow be "traced" to the traffickers. I had to give a deposition on that in Atlanta.

ATF agents put the screws to Andre Howard from Lone Wolf Gun Supply, and one of the guns was found at the shooting scene of Border Patrol officer Brian Terry. Within hours, the ATF leaked the trace information to CNN and other outlets, and they tried to throw Howard under the bus.

When the investigations started and the whole thing made news, suddenly all the claims of trafficking to Mexico were put on hold.

 

[44 AMP]

I also remember that while there was no direct track to the President, there was one to the AG, who then decided on a career change, left the White House and went to become mayor of Chicago, or some such thing....

 

[wayneinFL]

Mexico's armed forces are losing a ton of guns, mostly supplied by US manufacturers. All those are going to trace back to the US as well.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/m...oses-30-of-the-firearms-it-buys-from-the-u-s/

 

[44 AMP]

Well, of course guns made in the USA are going to trace back to the USA. Our laws REQUIRE them to say "made in USA" or some equivalent.

And that's the rub, it is actually factual to say that guns made in the USA come from the USA.

The LIE is that the US gunmakers are supplying guns to criminals in Mexico, or any where else.

But that is what gets reported, and that is the basis for their BS lawsuit.

The logic is beyond laughable, it is ludicrous. stupidly simplistic and totally false. Sadly, that does not stop "news" reporters or lawyers willing to waste time in court as they get paid, either way...

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Obviously, the United Sates should not allow any U.S.-made firearms to be sold, given, or lent to any South American government or military ... since Mexico has proven definitively that their Army can't hang onto its firearms. They can make their own -- or buy from Brazil or Argentine.

 

[44 AMP]

They can make their own -- or buy from Brazil or Argentine.

I disagree.

I think Mexico, or any other nation state should be allowed to BUY US arms. I don't think ANY should be provided by our govt as loan or gifts. We're not fighting Nazis and Imperial Japan these days...

Are "end user certificates" still a thing? if not, why not?? In the old days an 'end user certificate" was the documentation, signed by the "end user" (purchasing govt) stating that they were the end user, and were entirely responsible for what was done with what they bought.

I think that ought to be the policy today. Sell what we make (money for us, and I'd suggest cash up front ) and the buyer is solely and entirely responsible for everything after delivery. Period, end of contract.

If you wreck it, if you lose it, if you let it get stolen, that's not our fault or our responsibility. Go sue yourselves, we didn't cause and are not responsible for your problems!!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I think Mexico, or any other nation state should be allowed to BUY US arms.

Not if they're going to turn a blind eye while their military gives (or sells) the guns to the cartels, and then blame the U.S. for the proliferation of "gun violence" in their country.

 

[44 AMP]

Not if they're going to turn a blind eye while their military gives (or sells) the guns to the cartels, and then blame the U.S. for the proliferation of "gun violence" in their country.

I disagree, on the base level. I think the idea of ending (prohibiting) legal sales because of what some 3rd, 14th, or 25th party down the road does with the gun is wrong. This is the same basic tactic anti-gun people in the US are using (and have been for a while), to "end gun violence" remove legal gun sales (and thereby legal gun ownership). No guns = no gun crime, right??

I say, take their money, and laugh them out of court when they try to claim their problems are our fault.

Legal matters use complicated language, but seems to me it ought to boil down to something this simple...

Accuser Claim: "Criminals are using US made guns doing tremendous violence in our country! PAY US for the damage those guns caused!!!"

Judge: How did those guns get into criminal hands in your country?

Accuser: (eyes darting left and right, small voice answers) um...ah...our government bought them, and they were stolen!

Judge: Then you need to be suing the people they got stolen from. bangs gavel, DISMISSED! Next case?