Glendale, Arizona treats lawful gun owners as criminals Pt. 2

Here's a suggestion for anyone who has to deal with this kind of crap.

If you're going to have to check a firearm simply for purposes of demonstrating against such foolish policy, consider getting one specifically for that purpose. That is, acquire a 'junk gun' that you don't intend to carry or use long term. I found a friendly, local FFL that had a non-working pistol (without even a firing pin!), and he simply loaned it to me for free (had to complete a 4473, of course).

I'll give it back to him when this is over. No cost, no registration of one of my firearms, point made.


EricM, of course, you're right. No BG is going to check his gun, and we all know that. The librarian lives in denial.

Regards from AZ

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited October 24, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Thomas:

If you're going to have to check a firearm simply for purposes of demonstrating against such foolish policy, consider getting one specifically for that purpose. That is, acquire a 'junk gun' that you don't intend to carry or use long term. I found a friendly, local FFL that had a non-working pistol (without even a firing pin!), and he simply loaned it to me for free (had to complete a 4473, of course).

Regards from AZ
[/quote]

Excellent idea. I will be visiting AZ in the coming weeks for work. Hopefully I'll have time to participate :).
 
Seems like a great time to invest in a few POS Jennings and have a squad of people show up at the library. Not all at once though. Make sure the Cops in question have left before the next man shows up. What happens if you change you mind after the cops get there? Do you still have to give up your gun or can you go on your merry way? What happens if you show up unarmed and asking to check deadly weapons in?
 
They think this treatment will wear us down. Hell, I'm considering inviting the Tyranny Response Team and Brassroots Inc. to have a combined monthly meeting at one of the three Glendale libraries. Cripes, by the time the Glendale PD gets done filling out all of the forms, the libary will be closed for the night.

If they need two or three cops to check one gun from one guy, just think how many they will need for a couple dozen?

BTW, a nice, fixed blade knife counts as a checkable "deadly weapon" for the purposes of this kinda stuff.

Rick

[This message has been edited by RickD (edited October 24, 2000).]
 
Here's a twist. this just hit the AP wire:

Armed Suspect Holding Kids in Ariz.
GLENDALE, Ariz. (AP) -- Glendale police were in a standoff Tuesday with a
student armed with a 9mm handgun was holding 10 children hostage in a portable
classroom at an elementary school.
Officers responded to Pioneer Elementary School about 11 a.m. and found the
masked person in the portable classroom armed with a weapon, police spokesman
Matt Brown said.
Few details were immediately available, but Brown said the person was talking
with officers.
Police do not know what prompted the situation, he said.
Peoria School District spokeswoman Kelly Bell said students were being kept in
the rooms where they are and the doors are locked. She asked parents to remain
calm and stay away from the campus to allow emergency personnel to do their
jobs.
She had no information about the suspect.
Pioneer Elementary School serves students from kindergarten through 8th grade.
 
Yep, I'm listening on the radio as the thang unfolds. Supposedly the person is an ex-student of the elementary (I don't know if that means he graduated or changed schools).

He only has one hostage (a teacher).

Rick
 
He gave up without other incident.

Darn good thing that was a GunFreeSkoolZone.
I wonder how many Glendale cops were checking guns at libraries.

Rick
 
So would you guys use lock boxes if provided by the city? Maybe you could donate them and make a big public relations campaign out of it, or do you expect the city to do everything for you? ;)
Seriously, I am not flaming, just curious.

Tia and best wishes,
Fury
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RH:
Here's a twist. this just hit the AP wire:

Armed Suspect Holding Kids in Ariz.
GLENDALE, Ariz. (AP) -- Glendale police were in a standoff Tuesday with a
student armed with a 9mm handgun was holding 10 children hostage in a portable
classroom at an elementary school.
Officers responded to Pioneer Elementary School about 11 a.m. and found the
masked person in the portable classroom armed with a weapon, police spokesman
Matt Brown said.
Few details were immediately available, but Brown said the person was talking
with officers.
Police do not know what prompted the situation, he said.
Peoria School District spokeswoman Kelly Bell said students were being kept in
the rooms where they are and the doors are locked. She asked parents to remain
calm and stay away from the campus to allow emergency personnel to do their
jobs.
She had no information about the suspect.
Pioneer Elementary School serves students from kindergarten through 8th grade.
[/quote]

School free gun zone.
 
C'mon, guys. Give us some credit. One of the very first things we did was tell them that the Arizona Rifle and Pistol Association would donate the pistol locker for them. We knew they would not take the offer, we just wanted to see them not take the offer.

The problem is them. They do not wish to obey the law as other Arizona cities and counties have done. Ferinstance....

<snip>
Yuma County suspends weapons ban until lockers are installed

Associated Press
Oct. 24, 2000


YUMA - Yuma County won't stop people from packing pistols in county buildings until weapons lockers are installed.

The Yuma County Board of Supervisors has unanimously suspended a policy banning weapons in county buildings. They also agreed to spend no more than $15,000 from contingency funds to place coin-operated weapons storage lockers in up to 38 county buildings.

The weapons ban will be reinstated at each site as people can secure their guns, knives or other potentially lethal items. Pocketknives are excluded from the ban, according to state law.

Supervisors started the policy in May, based on a state law that makes it a misdemeanor to enter a public place or public event with a weapon if one has been asked not do so.

Lucy Shipp, supervisors chairwoman, requested that people respect the intent of the signs and not carry weapons into the buildings until the lockers arrive.


Copyright 2000, The Arizona Republic. All rights reserved.
 
RickD,
Good job on the offer of the lockers. I meant no insult.
The cities refusal to accept them shows that they are unreasonable and deserve the hassle that they get from it. Too bad the leo's aren't allowed to do better things by the politicians that they work for.

Good luck. :)
 
what happens when someone jimmies a locker and takes a gun? You can sue the facility (RIIIGHHT) for not having adequate storage?

And what happens if someone leaves a weapon there...do they have to run a trace?

You can still screw with them over this.
 
My hope is that Arizona governmental entitites would only rarely *choose* to invoke the checking statute (it is not mandatory that they do so).

A court building. Okay. Police station. Okay. A library? Gimme a break. You can argue a point that there is a direct need for increased security in courts (hence the presense of armed security guards), but in a library? Leave me alone.

There might be three or four city buildings in Glendale that would, perhaps, need to invoke the checking statue and then supply lock boxes. Save some bucks by not buying them for the rest.

As for giving them further grief when they actually choose to conform to the law, well, we have other issues to fight at that point.

Rick
 
I went there yesterday.

It was raining HARD so I just walked in, gun on my hip, dripping water, and asked the librarian to call the police as I had a weapon to check.

She called and of all the questions she was asked, she was asked for her SS number. I guess they want to know that the call is authentic...

Anyway, she offered me a tissue to clean the rain off of my glasses with. Very nice. I asked her if she minded that I use the restroom. She said, "No, that's fine."

I was wet and it was cold outside, but I stepped out of the frint door anyway. There is an overhang and a bench there. I sat down and waited for the police to show up.

About 3-4 minutes after the librarian made the call, two city hired security guards (unarmed) came in the back door and started talking to the librarian. They looked a little confused, and even went into the restroom. After standing around for a minute or two, one of them came outside.

Looking at me, "Are you the one that want to check his gun?"

"Yes," I responded.

"Did you take you weapon into the building?"

"Of course I did. I had to use the restroom, and ask the librarian to call the police."

Getting a bit huffy, "Didn't you know that it's against the law to take a weapon in the building? Why didn't you leave it in your car?"

"I didn't leave it in the car because you weren't here to watch my car, and I had to go really badly. Would you have prefered that I pee out here?"

And then the classic line, "I don't make the laws."

I just shrugged my shoulders and laughed.

He said, "There's a bathroom around the corner that you can use. It's technically part of the building, but you can enter it from outside."

"Oh," I responded, "So now there is a bathroom for 'gun owners' and a bathroom for disarmed people? What you are telling me is that I am to be treated as a second class citizen until my gun is removed from me? It sounds like bigotry and segregation to me!"

The rest of the conversation consisted of sound bites on his part, and he kept pointing to the sign that states that the carry of "deadly weapons" in the library was prohibited, but he didn't make the connection that someone with the intent to do harm would be better detered if there were people with the ability to defend themselves inside. He did, however, acknowledge that the sign would not stop a criminal. I guess when he was formed that connecting logic circuit was never formed.

I asked him why he was outside with me, and his reponse was "to keep an eye on me, becasue I was aggitated."

I asked him because of his unarmed status how he intended to stop me if I chose to get violent. He extended his arms and said, "With these."

It was most laughable. And I said so. Surprise would have taken him out of the game in a moment.

He went on to say that my entering the library was "endangering" the "librarians, mothers, fathers, and the children."

I asked how, and his response was that "they feel threatened."

I told him that is was pure ignorance, and that they had the right to feel threatened, but just my being there was absolutely not endangering them. In fact, the safest place for this gunis on my hip, because as soon as someone starts to handle it, the risk of a discharge increases exponentially.

He just didn't get it.

The cop arrived and calmly walked up to us and asked me if I was the one that needed to check my gun.

"Yes, I am." I said.

"What would you like me to do? If you're not going to be long, I could just hold it for you while you took care of what you need."

"No, I'll be about an hour."

"Okay, I'll have to check it then. May I get your information so that you can retrieve it?"

I handed him my driver's license. When he was done writting down the information he needed, he handed me my license and said, "Okay, I'll take the gun now."

"Would you like to get it, or shall I?"

"You do it."

"Would you like me to unload it, too?"

"Yes, please."

I pulled it out of my holster, pointed it into the corner and removed the magazine and the bullet in the chamber. I handed it locked open to him and asked that he double check.

He gave me his card and instructions on how to get it back. I asked him for a reciept, and he said he'd have to go back to the car to fill one out.

Fine.

In the mean time the rent-an-idiots tried to tell me how I was endagering people and asked why I needed a gun in the library, and asked why, if I knew the law, didn't I stop at a convenience store on the way to the library to use the restroom, instead of "crossing the thresh-hold with a weapon in my possession"?

NOW I was getting aggitated, AND I was cold and shivering because I was wet and there was a slight breeze!

When the cop came back the rent-an-idiots left. He looked at me and asked if I was alright. "Yes," I said, "I just don't like being treated like a second class citizen."

He agreed with me that this "policy" that Glendale has fabricated is foolish. "If they are going to do something like this," he said, "Why don't they put in lock boxes, where you can place your gun and take the key, do your business, and then get it again?"

Then he said, "Get in there, and get warm!"

I shook his hand and thanked him.

All in all it took an hour out of my day to check my gun and retrieve it, and have it registered now with the city of Glendale.

Bigoted idiots. It is definately NOT about gun control, it's about control.

------------------
John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

www.cphv.COM & www.handguncontrol.NET are being sued by Handgun Control, Inc.!

See the "cease and desist" letter here: www.cphv.com/lawsuit.html
 
Well done John.

Any new news on the idea of swamping the library with gunowners on a single day?

CMOS

------------------
NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!

CMOS's Site
 
Do any of you realize that gun owners are the new "niggers" of Amerika? And that this treatment is SANCTIONED AND APPROVED by government?

"You bes' git on back ta the plantation boy, 'fore you gets hurt."

"Yassah massah! I be goin' right away massah! Thanks ya fo' not beatin' me massah!"


(disclaimer: I am not a racist; I'm using this 'dialog' for demonstration purposes only.)
 
We probably won't be doing anymore mass checking. Any checking we do now is to get a few more data points. Information we can use against them.

Our (my) next step is to compose a letter to the state AG and county attorney (for purposes of showing people that they will not uphold the law either).

Then we have a half-dozen of us confront Glendale at the next city council meeting.

Then we file suit (weeks away).

BTW, Glendale is still stiffing State Senator Scott Bundgaard. They refuse to return his call to verify the meeting that was to be scheduled "Monday or Tuesday". Yes, that is correct, yesterday or today.

Supposedly Senator Darden Hamilton who was like-wised stiffed for weeks finally met with Glendale last week. We have not heard from him since.

We have seen his photo on milk cartons, however.

Rick
 
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