Glass Bedding vs Hogue Bedded Stock

[Bigfishhunter]

I have a Ruger m77 MkII that doesn't shoot well, surprise, surprise. I like a lot of the aspects of the gun, but would like it better if it could group better.

I have sanded out the synthetic stock to make the barrel float. Not sure if that did anything positive, certainly not on the range. It almost feels as though the forend is wimpy now, and am wondering about barrel slap.

My thoughts going forward were two-fold, 1. put in a trigger 2. Glass bed the thing.

Then I saw that Hogue stocks sell a full bedded option. Is this something worth going with? What are the pros and cons of glass bedding myself, vs the Hogue stock?

My initial thought is that with the Hogue I am spending $300 and not sure if I will see any positive effects.

appreciate any help

 

[jcj54]

Synthetic stock

I have not had much luck getting bedding compound to bond with most synthetic stocks.

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...getting bedding compound to bond..." You need to sand the inner surfaces a tick. Roughens it so the epoxy will stick.
"...make the barrel float..." Not all rifles (and it's individual rifles), like a floated barrel. Barrels are only floated from the end of the forestock to the chamber area of the barrel. If the rifle's accuracy doesn't improve or at least be consistent, putting a pressure point back in isn't a big deal. It's just a dab of bedding material an inch or so aft of the end of the forestock. Easier to do than it is to type all that.
"...forend is wimpy..." You can stiffen that with a piece of graphite or Al arrow shaft and epoxy. Or simply a piece of 3/16" Al tubing or wooden dowel(way cheaper than any arrow shaft).
However, if the trigger hasn't been done and the bedding isn't right and you're not using the ammo that rifle prefers, it won't matter anyway.
The Hogue stocks are pillar bedded. Means the rifle is actually separate from the stock and sits literally on pillars and doesn't touch the stock at all. Glass bedding makes the rifle and stock more like one thing. I'd guess that your stock screws may not be tight enough. Very much a guess though.
"...glass bedding myself..." It's actually quite easy. You buy an Acraglas kit(about $30 on Amazon, Brownell's or your local gun shop) and follow the directions on the box.
Just remember that an M77 is a hunting rifle. Accuracy requirements are more about consistency than group size. Requires good ammo too.

 

[tobnpr]

Quantify "doesn't group well", and ammo tried? Caliber?

 

[jmr40]

You have a solid dependable hunting rifle probably capable of 1.5" 3 shot groups at 100 yards. That is typical of that rifle and good enough for most hunting. If you need or want more accuracy you'll be money ahead to just buy another rifle. For $350 you can buy the new Ruger American and get MUCH better accuracy.

Generally those shoot better if not free floated. Glass bedding probably won't help nor will another stock.

Ruger uses a unique bedding system with the angled action screw that pulls the action down AND toward the rear at the same time. Those rifles don't respond to glass bedding and free floating the way traditional rifles do. The stock you have on it, as it left the factory is as good as you'll get.

A better trigger may help some, but not much.

About the only advice that helps on those is to make sure the actions screws are tightened "CORRECTLY". The proper way is to just put them all in hand tight initially. The angled action screw should be very tight. I don't have specs on the exact number, but about as tight as possible by hand. Then snug the others up just enough to prevent them from coming loose. If not done in the correct order the action and barrel cannot move freely down and back.

If the screws are tightened properly and you aren't happy, it is time to buy another rifle. You could easily throw more money at this one than it is worth and still not get any more accuracy.

 

[Bigfishhunter]

calibre is 300 win mag.

I am using federal premium ammo with 180 gr accubonds.

Groups are around 2.5"

I have tried different ammo and other grain sizes, and found that the larger bullets seem better.

Hogue does offer a full bed option stock https://www.hogueinc.com/ruger-m77-mkii-hawkeye-long-action-standard-barrel-full-bed-block-stock

The videos I have watch of people doing glass bed jobs seem to have more surface area to work with than the skeletal one that I have.

I get what you are saying, maybe time to buy a new gun. I really don't want to do that though.

 

[5whiskey]

I have not had much luck getting bedding compound to bond with most synthetic stocks.

Drill several small holes at varying angles into the stock near the receiver screws (basically the main areas to be bedded). This will create a mechanical lock that holds the bedding compound in place.

 

[Scorch]

I suspect jmr40 may be on the right trail. It's worth trying at least. The front action screw should be torqued to 50-60 inch-lbs, the rear screw to 30 inch-lbs. The center screw should be just snug. Notice it is INCH-POUNDS, not foot-pounds.

And just because you are shooting expensive ammo doesn't mean your rifle likes it at all, every rifle has its own preferences. Try different makes, different weights, see what works best. But first clean the bore really well with a copper solvent and make sure the scope base screws are tight enough (25 inch-lbs).

 

[Unclenick]

Getting epoxies to adhere to thermoplastics is often like trying to glue something to a piece of wax. There are some epoxies specially made for adhesion to HDPE, but, IIRC, you not only need the right epoxy, but also need to heat the plastic with a flame, plasma, or a discharge corona to oxidize the surface some for adhesion. Sandpapering alone is not normally done.

I think, if you want good contact with the gun, I would do what Browning did to bed their A-bolt synthetic stock rifles, and that is to use some Devcon 80 black polyurethane rubber rather than a solid bedding material between the rear surface of the recoil lug and the stock, but not surrounding the lug completely. For one thing, your ear will thank you. The plastic carries sound better than wood, and when you use a hard betting with it, you generally get louder recoil in your ear and through your facial bones contacting the stock.

Another thing you can try is intentional stock contact. This is done by getting the firm screw contact Scorch talked about. (You will save yourself some potential grief if you get some hardened Torx head screws for that, as some softer screws tear up or even lose their heads as you close in on 50 in-lbs.) Then you hang a couple of full water jugs off the front sling swivel to pull the stock down, and wedge some matchstick or cardboard in at one point near the front of the stock to create intentional upward pressure between the stock and barrel. You adust the position of the wedge to tune the barrel to your load. When you have it where you want it, you put some mold release on the barrel at that place, soak the cardboard in epoxy and put it in place to set. You'll have the same adhesion concerns, but this is a place where the plastic-specific epoxy may work well. West Marine sells a plastic-friendly slow-set epoxy called G-flex 655 that they have in their plastic boat repair kit. I would try that and flame prep with a propane torch (just short of bubbling and burning the surface).

There is an adjustable version of that bedding system called the Smart Stock, but I don't know if it will work in a thermoplastic stock. I bought one of these at a show long ago, and it has a little trough that has to be bedded into the front of the stock. You might be able to drive screws into a plastic rib for this, but I don't have personal experience trying to do it.