Glaser safety slugs.

D

Daddycat

New member
Currently my wife and I reside in an apartment complex. As such we have become concerned about overpenetration issues. We have decided to minimize this risk by loading our pistols with Glaser safety slugs the silver tips(45acp-145g +p). While I will buy some for the range,(very few as the cost is prohibitive for me at this time), I'd like to hear what other TFLers experience has been with these cartridges. Any feedback appreciated.
Daddycat

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"A rigid investment in flexability is but another closed system of thinking"
 
Daddycat,
I like Glasers. They're a highly destructive round. Fast! I keep alternating rounds of Glaser Blue and Hydra-Shok in my Mustang Pocketlite. I keep Glasers exclusively in the magazine of my .25 cal Beretta Jetfire. (Except for practice.)

Will

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Mendacity is the system we live in.
 
The problem is twofold: they will penetrate several layers of wallboard (at least they did when Gun Tests tested them), and they will not reliably penetrate so that they put large holes in vital organs.

There is another problem as well, you generally do not fire enough rounds to assure reliability due to the cost.

As an ER MD with 20 years' experience, who has seen many GSW's (although not a single frangible; they are very rare), the big blunt bullets do the most damage.

Walt Welch MD
 
I like Glasers. I load them for the first two rounds in the mag, followed by either Hydrashocks or Hornadys to fill it up.

I know from personal experience they won't go through a TV.
 
Glasers are light and fast...that means they are loud, hit below point of aim (sometimes far below) and may or may not cycle an autoloader. If you intend to use them in an autoloader, test at least a couple of magazines and preferably more.
 
MagSafe makes a SWAT frangible round in most calibers that they guarantee will break up in sheetrock. They are about the same cost as Glasers, around $16 for six.
 
I hate to sound liek a downer on Glasers, but their cost would make sufficient reliability testing difficult. I would think that, if penetration is to be avoided, hyper-velocity .22 (30gr Stingers) might be a better choice for reliability and follow-up shots. Touch off a Glaser indoors with no ears on, tell me if you can still function...my bias only.
 
Um, aren't we violating the golden rule of proving a round in your gun before use?

Remember? Shoot at least 150-200 rounds of any given round to prove its reliability before even considering it for defensive use. That's why these high dollar rounds are not very well received in autoloaders. i would personally feel more comfortable with using them in a revolver.

Always prove your rounds.

CMOS

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NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!
 
I like the MAG SAFE rounds... was always a big fan.
But I am growing into a traditionalist like Dr Welch. While a Magsafe might produce a severe and ugly wound - that wound MIGHT not go deep enough to destroy vital organs...
A front on shot doesnt have to go very far - about 2 or 3 inches and you could be hitting vitals... the heart isnt very deep behind the sturnum.
The problem is that your target may not be standing square on to you and let you shoot him for maximum effect. This is the problem.
You cant always pick your shots... and you may have to shoot through a barrier.
This is why I advocate big bullets that will go deep.
Drywall and such are a concern - but instead of relying on the device I rely on the application. If thats a concern, drop into a kneel - the angle of trajectory is now going up... and over the heads of children or sleeping people on the other side of that wall in cases of misses or over penetration.


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To understand the true nature of a Politician - you have to look at the root words in Politics. Poli = meaning Many, and Tics = meaning blood sucking insects.
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. This was not a whimsical decision, to load with a round that I knew I could not put 150-200 through the pistols first. However, I simply won't load a round that is sure to penetrate into the next apartment should I miss, or in the case of my 1911 if I don't miss. I have neighbors on all sides of me, as well as above and below. I'd like to hear more about these swat mag-safe rounds that will break up in dry wall. I understand that too little penetration presents its own problems, however, a pistol loaded with frangibles are much better than using harsh language. It sounds as though the idea that Glasers will break up if they hit so much as a twig is inaccurate(which is what I was told). I was under the impression that Glasers were developed for use in airplanes because they would not penetrate the fulsilage. Anyone have any feedback about this?
Daddycat

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"A rigid investment in flexability is but another closed system of thinking"
 
1) Dump the Glasers and go with MagSafe SWAT. Glasers are designed to fragment in tissue not sheetrock. MagSafe SWAT is designed to fragment in tissue AND sheetrock.

2) Retire the 1911 for home defense and buy a 3" or 4" .357 Magnum revolver and load it with Magafe SWAT. No need to perform function testing with expensive personal defense ammo.

or

3) Buy a 12 gauge pump shotgun and load it with #7 1/2 or #8 birdshot.

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/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
Hey how about the shot Shells that CCI and I believe Winchester makes. I have a few in 38 and want to get some in 44. It seems to me that these would make someone think again about wanting anything from your house. Just load the first chamber with one of these and the the others with something a little more powerful(like Hydrashoks)
 
Well...I guess I'll have to rethink my opinion regarding Glasers. Dr. Welch has some first hand experience in the ER with gunshot wounds and that sounds like an expert's opinion to me.
Dr. Welch, if you come back to this thread, what do you think about hollow points? I use Federal Hydra-Shoks in my Glock. Do you think FMJ is a better choice than Hydra-Shoks?

Thanks,
Will

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Mendacity is the system we live in.
 
I find myself agreeing with Shawn D.

Nothing wrong with your 1911, but if you are dead set on using Glasers or Magsafes, I think a .357 magnum is a better way to go. You will not have any reliability concerns because of ammo selection.

But, if you are going to take a bath on a trade, or can't afford another gun (been there) and you have to use the 1911, I think you should abandon the frangibles. You'll go broke trying buy even 100 rounds of these specialty rounds to test for reliabilty.

I would probably consider Triton's Quickshoks. These are not some super-velocity frangible that has a low point of aim, and poor accuracy. (Accuracy may not matter that much at the distances you are talking about - but then again, it may.) When I fired Glasers and Magsafes from my Python, I was flabbergasted at the "spread" of the rounds.

The Triton's will probably penetrate wall board just as much as a JHP round, but will also be less likely to punch a whole out the other side. They are affordable, and function in your gun just like a JHP would - because that is what they are, basically. You seem to be partial to the lighter rounds, and I sympathize. Still, I like heavier rounds that will get in all the way. What if he's 7'1" and 310 lbs of muscle? Now I don't know why Shaq is breaking in to your house, and not practicing his free throws, but you're going to wish you had something that can punch through all that muscle and put him down if he does. I'll shut up about this now.

I lived in apts for years, and just loaded up my guns with medium wt. hollow-points. I used Remington 185gr +ps in my .45, and 175gr Winchester Silvertips in my 10mms. Just make sure you hit him if the time ever comes.

Tom



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Don't Tread on Me

Why 10mm beats .45 ACP . . .
www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm
 
Over penetration is a highly overated. How many people are actually killed from it each year? The LEO will wright up the report while you are in the strecher.

Glasers.....junk, period. And I have done a ton of research on this topic. Trust me, you will never shoot enough of them to become proficient and ensure 100% reliability in your gun. They don't have the penetration you need and were developed for the Federal LEO's and Air Marshalls to not penetrate Aircraft in Flight.

The Fraud Goat Tests might tell a different story, but who conducted them?

Shoot what will feed reliably in your gun and the JHP's/Ball you shoot the most. Accuracy and reliability first. Hell, get a ShotGun loaded with birdshots, no problems with overpenetration there!

Regards,
Hann
 
Maybe I shouldn't admit this but ...
I performed an informal "test" of a Glaser Blue on a very large dog. Dog was a dangerous stray. Captured it. I had just bought a 6 pack of .44 spl. Glasers. The pistol was a Charter Bulldog and held 5 rounds. Used the "extra" on dog at a distance of 5 feet. Usually when you shoot a dog, he at least makes a little half-yelp or some kind of sound. The only sound in this case was the gunshot. Morbid curiosity took over and I "autopsied" it.
The chest cavity was appx. 10 inches wide. The bullet entered the left side between two ribs and making a perfectly round 1/2" dia. hole in the skin. In a circle about 2" in diameter the ribs were powdered - the largest pieces were about 1/8" long. On the opposite side (inside the rib cage), I found the bullet jacket and the blue plastic bead that serves as the nose of the bullet.
The bullet jacket had expanded to 1.2 inches in dia. The ribs on this side were broken into pieces of various sizes in a roughly 6" dia circle. the wound channel was relatively narrow at first and then took on a cone-shape (sort of like a funnel). On the near side of the heart was a hole of about 1" dia. The opposite side intact but shredded (it looked kinda like "minute steak").

I'll leave out the details but I can state for a fact that a Glas. Blue 9mm will not go through a wall of plaster and lathe construction (will fully enter but will not exit). I don't know about drywall but I suspect the bullet would expend most, if not all, of it's energy in such a wall.

I have some reservations about using them in a semi., but none whatsoever in a house revolver.

Yes, I realize that dogs are not as heavily boned as goblins.
 
There is no TFL for the ethical treatment of animals. I suspect a government agency at work here...whatever you do, don't go with him. :D
 
Daddycat,

Given your criteria, I would hesitate to use a handgun at all. Why? Because the rounds that won't penetrate into your neighbor's apartment may very well not penetrate into an intruder, especially if the person is wearing winter clothing.

I suggest you get yourself a shotgun and load it with No. 7 1/2 shot. At household ranges it's going to provide much more power than a handgun, it's going to be more physically intimidating, it's going to be easier to hit with a long-gun than any handgun (although you can still easily miss with a shotgun) and if you do miss, the light shot will be greatly retarded by penetrating wall board.

Given your criteria, a handgun really just isn't a viable option, in my opinion.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
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