Giving a Rifle as a Christmas Present ?

T

TX Hunter

New member
I have a question, If you want to buy a Rifle, or Shotgun, and give it to a person for a Christmas Present, what are the laws in place ? To make it simple the person could legaly purchase a gun, but when you fill out that paperwork, the gun belongs to you.
Could someone please clear this up for me ?
 
You can purchase a gun as a gift for someone in your immediate family - wife, child, parent, sibling.

I don't believe that you can do it for someone outside of that group. If that's what you had in mind, I might recommend ordering the gun and paying for it, but then just having the recipient go in to fill out the 4473 to pick it up. You could give them a picture of the gun. :p

Other than that, you could purchase the gun for "yourself", then decide later that you don't want it and gift it to whoever you chose. As long as you didn't originally buy the rifle with the intent of giving it to someone else, you're in the clear. That may be a little bit of a grey area there....

I've bought guns new and then shot it, decided I didn't like it and sold them or traded for something else the next week. *shrug*
 
As long as you didn't originally buy the rifle with the intent of giving it to someone else, you're in the clear. That may be a little bit of a grey area there....
Click to expand...

God knows I should just leave this alone and not start this whole debate. But I'm hardheaded!

ATF likes to muddy the waters as much as possible. But if you just keep asking them pointed questions over and over and over again, they will finally admit that laws against a "straw purchase" have to involve a person who isn't legally allowed to own the gun before you can be subject to prosecution. (They put up ATF posters in gun stores that show this is the reality.) If somebody asks you to buy a gun for them because they can't legally do so by themselves, then it is time to run.

But if I had a father-in-law who liked and owned guns and I wanted to buy him one as a gift, I wouldn't worry about it for a second.

(What's that helicopter noise I hear? Wow, it's black......)

Gregg
 
Texas doesn't have any of the restrictions that California does.
You can buy a gun as a gift for anyone who can legally own it, not just family members.
 
Im here in texas. The gun is NOT registered to the user. When you fill out the form during FFL transfer all theyre doing is a background check. If youre uncertain just write out an invoice after they receive it, thats all thats needed at most
 
Thanks Larry NTX, TX Fly Fish

I just like to be legal, I was blessed with a great Father in Law, for the last 18 Years, he has alwayse been there for me, and is a good hunting buddy also.
He dosnt get on the internet, so he wont know, he is getting a Henry .22 for Christmas. I cant wait to see his eyes light up. :D
 
The law doesn't care if you pay for the gun as long as the actual owner completes the 4473. However, Party A pays but Party B signs, it may appear to the FFL as if Party B is making a straw purchase for Party A, so ask first.

It is legal for you to buy a gun to give as a gift. This is explicitly addressed on the back of the 4473:

Question lI.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form. you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment. firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer "NO" to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "YES" to question 11.a.
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Question 11.a
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
 
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Some places the salesman may have a personal issue with giving just purchased gun away, that happened when I told the guy at the gun counter I was buying for someone else.

He said he couldn't sell it once I stated that. I had to come back the next day.

But in Texas, as long as the person can legally own a firearm, you can do whatever you want with it afterwards.

Hence the "gun show loophole" that the media loves to whine about, which most of what I've heard doesn't really happen.
 
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When you fill out the paperwork at the gun dealer, that is not registering the gun in your name. That is simply a transfer from a licensed dealer to you. What you do with the gun afterwords is your own business. You are under no obligation to tell the dealer anything about what you intend to do with the gun, other than answering the questions on the transfer record. I used to have an FFL years ago, and unless they have changed the laws, the dealer doesn't even send a copy of the transfer form to the BATFE unless he is going out of business and turning in his license. Normally, the forms just stay in the dealers records. They have to be accessible if the BATFE wants to see them, but they don't generally get a copy of them. Like I said, it was years ago, the laws may have changed some on that point but, like I said, once you have filled out the transfer record, and legally purchased the gun, it is yours do do with whatever you please, as long as it is within the law. There is no law that even says you have to have a bill of sale if you sell one of you personal firearms, athough it is a good idea, especially if you don't know the person you sold it to or bought it from from for that matter.
 
Strange way that it works in NC. If you want to purchase a new handgun, you must get a pistol purchase permit from the Sheriff in your county of residence. The application for the permit does require your SS number. You must do this for the purchase of a new personal handgun even if you are the chief of police in a town in NC. But the chief can purchase all the day long all types of firearms for departmental use, even to be issued to him for duty use.
That permit is good for pistol or long gun purchase with no further background check, just the 4473 at the dealer. Thus the sheriff does not know when nor where nor what is purchased with the permit. And except for the 4473, no one else knows.
Those who have concealed carry permit in NC do not need further permits or background check, just complete the 4473.
But if you go into Walmart to buy a long gun, the gun serial and model is given on the phone to the person at the Instant Background Check center. And the 4473 says the SS number is not required, but the background check will not be approved without it. So the feds are given lots of information on the purchase of long guns in NC.
 
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TX - I can tell you that Bass Pro in Dallas and Cabellas in Allen both have issues with buying guns for your wife/husband without them being there.

Went through this last Christmas to get my 'surprise'.

Is it a legal issue? No. Is it a policy issue? No idea, didn't ask one of the 20 managers. Was it an issue? Yes sir.
 
The point is, as far as I know, they have no right to ask and you have no obligation to answer any questions that are not not specifically asked on the 4473. If it is store policy, it is not law and you can tell them anything you want. It really is none of their business as long as you are making a legal purchase.

As for background checks, in Georgia and Florida, if you have a concealed carry permit, they don't even do the instant check. You just make your purchase and walk out with it. No phone calls to anyone.
 
[You are under no obligation to tell the dealer anything about what you intend to do with the gun, other than answering the questions on the transfer record.]

Yep, even a FISH wouldn't get in trouble, IF it'd just keep it's big, flappin' mouth SHUT !

Trouble is, lotta folks jes' like to hear thesselves talk....................:p

.
 
PetahW, exactly right. Just like they taught us in the Army. Never volunteer anything or volunteer for anything. If they ask what you intend to do with a rifle, I would probably tell them it was none of their business and if they didn't like it I'd take my business elsewhere but, if might be easier to just tell them I planned on shooting cans.
 
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