popeyespappy
New member
Can I give my Glock 22 to an old friend in another state as a gift without going through an FFL transfer? I am in Alabama. My friend is in Ohio.
Giving a pistol as a gift
- Thread starter popeyespappy
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ScottRiqui
New member
No, the transfer will have to go through an FFL in the recipient's state of residence.
knight0334
New member
Above is true...
Now, if you write him into your will as recipient to the gun in question, then die - you can do it that way too. lol
Now, if you write him into your will as recipient to the gun in question, then die - you can do it that way too. lol
popeyespappy
New member
No... Then he might be tempted to speed the process along.
It's not as bad as it sounds... the person in Ohio just needs to find
a cheap or even free FFL near them. There are garage FFLs that might do it for next to nothing or for a gift.
This is of course assuming the person receiving the gift can pass the background check.
then again you could just loan him the gun for a while....
I have an AR15 that a friend down in Florida loaned me a while back...
a cheap or even free FFL near them. There are garage FFLs that might do it for next to nothing or for a gift.
This is of course assuming the person receiving the gift can pass the background check.
then again you could just loan him the gun for a while....
I have an AR15 that a friend down in Florida loaned me a while back...
dogtown tom
New member
If you reside in SC, then you and your friend in Florida have transferred a firearm interstate in violation of Federal law.
The loan of a firearm must occur while your friend is in your state.
ex: you live in Texas, a friend visits to go hunting, you loan him a firearm while he is in Texas. He cannot take the firearm back to his state as that is an unlawful transfer of a firearm. You both go to Federal pen.
Gifting, loaning, borrowing, etc are fine and easy under Federal law- when both parties are residents of the same state.
"If you reside in SC, then you and your friend in Florida have transferred a firearm interstate in violation of Federal law. "
I disagree, and so does the ATF. According to the ATF agent who was called by a poster in this thread
www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=477830
a loaned firearm may be possessed out of state.
From post #27...
"I went over the scenario a few times in order for him to get the picture, but he told me that if it is not a transfer of ownership, but a loaning of property, it's all good.
I then asked about, say my brother comes into my state and then takes my handgun and rifle back to Texas with him, is that any less legal? He said 'no', that the AFT doesn't so much care where it happens, they're only concerned with what happens.
He said that, as long as I'm not giving (gifting), selling, or otherwise transferring the guns' ownership, but only loaning them, my brother and I can do this however, wherever, and it is not an issue that the ATF cares about. The family relationship doesn't even matter here either."
John
I disagree, and so does the ATF. According to the ATF agent who was called by a poster in this thread
www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=477830
a loaned firearm may be possessed out of state.
From post #27...
"I went over the scenario a few times in order for him to get the picture, but he told me that if it is not a transfer of ownership, but a loaning of property, it's all good.
I then asked about, say my brother comes into my state and then takes my handgun and rifle back to Texas with him, is that any less legal? He said 'no', that the AFT doesn't so much care where it happens, they're only concerned with what happens.
He said that, as long as I'm not giving (gifting), selling, or otherwise transferring the guns' ownership, but only loaning them, my brother and I can do this however, wherever, and it is not an issue that the ATF cares about. The family relationship doesn't even matter here either."
John
AirForceShooter
New member
different rules for a long gun as opposed to a handgun for interstate transfers.
And a "gift" is not a sale.
It is a transfer of posession.
AFS
And a "gift" is not a sale.
It is a transfer of posession.
AFS
Frank Ettin
Administrator
But the ATF regulations address transfers, not just sales.AirForceShooter said:
"Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.
"No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of this section:
"(a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence; and
"(b) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes." (27 CFR 478.30, emphasis added)
Where I live it is not legal to "gift" a handgun even to someone in the same state... Now I have been know give my dad some cash for his Birthday, Christmas, Father's day that just happens to be the amount need for him to buy a certain handgun that he so happens to want. 
Getting the pistol permit prior to pick up the handgun is also a pain in the butt... :barf:
Rifles and Shotguns, I go buy them and well they can be found under the Christmas tree all wrapped up with his name on the tag
Now gifting a handgun interstate? I think that isn't legal? I am by no means an expert in this area however.
Getting the pistol permit prior to pick up the handgun is also a pain in the butt... :barf:Rifles and Shotguns, I go buy them and well they can be found under the Christmas tree all wrapped up with his name on the tag
Now gifting a handgun interstate? I think that isn't legal? I am by no means an expert in this area however.
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
How do you figure that this arrangement is legal?blume357 said:
I know the BATFE recognizes loans (see the end of the citation in fiddletown's post, above), but a "loan" to a person in another state, for a long and indeterminate period of time, for an indeterminate purpose or purposes, seems to me a lot more like a transfer than a loan. Do as you will, but IMHO you're skating on thin ice, and so is the friend who "lent" you the weapon.
dogtown tom
New member
Verbal interpretations or opinions given by an ATF IOI over the phone are worth the paper they are written on and carry little weight when you get handcuffed.
In the last month I've had another FFL claim that he got an interpretation on ATF regulations that differed with my understanding. When I contacted his ATF IOI he agreed with me! Apparently some people word their question in a way that leaves out some pretty important information.
You can dance around the word "loan" all day long, but the fact remains that any nonlicensee who acquires a firearm from another nonlicensee in another state and transports it across state lines has committed an illegal transfer.
ATF regulations do not mention "ownership". Those regulations DO mention "possession".
Really???
Then why the hell did ATF make me get a Federal Firearm License?
I would like the name and phone number of the ATF employee who made that statement because it goes counter to EVERYTHING written in Federal law and ATF regulations. Either he didn't understand the question or he is a complete dolt.
Make no mistake about this........ATF MOST DEFINITELY cares about the WHERE, the HOW, the WHO, the WHAT and the WHEN. If you aren't aware of their level of "caring" you need to spend ten minutes googling "ATF".
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Actually, under the regulation I quoted, the ATF is okay with a loan ONLY IF a couple of conditions are satisfied: the loan must be both temporary and for a valid sporting purpose. So under the regulation, the ATF certainly could object if you loaned someone in another state a shotgun for an indeterminate period of time for him to stand up by the door to his house in case a burglar shows up.paull said:
When in my professional life it was desirable to obtain an opinion on something from an administrative agency upon which my client could rely, I would ask the question in writing. I'd also assure that my question(s) described in great detail the underlying factual setting so the no important information that could affect the answer was omitted.dogtown tom said:
The devil is in the details. Ignore them at your peril.
Is this law retroactive? I bought a rifle once from a guy in Indiana, he has died since tho. Was like in the late 70s early 80s.
I sold a handgun to a guy in Omaha, I live in Iowa, we took it to the police office in Omaha cause it has to be registered, policeman told me I could sell it to the guy no FFl, we did it there exchanged money and gun he registered it and still has it to this day. No one knocked on my door. Was before they started having to call and do a background check.
2 years ago I gave a 1911 to my nephew after he got out of boot camp.
He is sniping in Afganistan, said something about a damn we built there.
And..... it really does not matter what the ATF thinks. The ATF can recommend interpretations to the courts, but it is the courts that actually determine the interpretation of laws. It's not the opinion of an ATF that is the final authority - in reality it is the judge that one is standing before.
Look at these two statutes 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5):
You will notice that the loan exception only applies to (a)(5) and does NOT apply to (a)(3). That is what is clearly written (and not written) in the actual statute.
Look at these two statutes 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5):
You will notice that the loan exception only applies to (a)(5) and does NOT apply to (a)(3). That is what is clearly written (and not written) in the actual statute.
dogtown tom
New member
"You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride..." (meaning you will be sitting in jail or out on bond while your case works its way through the courts).
It REALLY does matter what the ATF thinks, as they will be the ones investigating what they think you did wrong.
In the United States you cannot be punished "retroactively". (if your city lowered the speed limit tomorrow on your street from 30mph to 20mph- do you think they would write you tickets for all those years you drove 28mph? Nope.)
In this case however, it has been illegal for a nonlicensee to acquire a long gun outside his state of residence from anyone other than a licensee since the passing of the Gun Control Act of 1968.
So.....yeah, you're a criminal. Shame on you
.knight0334
New member
Its been the law since 1968.. The Gun Control Act of '68 started all sorts of federal regulations on manufacturing, importing, sales, and interstate transfers.
All interstate handgun transfers must go through a FFL in the receiving party's home state.
All interstate long gun transfers must go through a FFL in either party's home state.
The only exemption is for bequests(a will) and transfer via intestate succession(lawful inheritance). Then the transfer must also comply with state/local laws after complying with federal.