Give me your opinion please.

H

HukeOKC

New member
This weekend I went to a gun show and bought a gun from the table ran by the people who sponsor the show at our fairgrounds here in OKC. I will paste a copy of both letters and I would like an opinion from other members here. No I am not an expert on guns and gun shows but I really disagree with this guy.

To whom it may concern,
I bought a Davis 32 ACP Derringer from your table at the show this Sunday for $90.00. After further review of the gun I got it home to see that it had been fired already and that it had not even been cleaned! I am not too upset that it had been fired but the fact that I paid 90.00 for a gun that had been fired and was used, at a gun show where I thought you are supposed to get good deals. I went to Outdoor America to get some ammo for the gun and thought I'd take a look at their Derringers and guess what.....................$69.90 for the same, brand new and never fired gun. Is it because I did not have to wait out the waiting period or what? Why did I have to pay an extra $20 for the same gun. I'll admit that some of it is my fault for not looking around before making my purchase but come on guys, you can do a guy better than that can't you? If you honestly think that people who go to your show in this city are going to keep coming back when your own table is bending them over, then you have got another thing coming. All they have to do is go around to a couple of shops here in town and see that your show is taking them for quite a ride. I am truly disappointed.

His response:

There is two things bothering you so I will address them one at
a time. The gun was new they are all test fired at the factory (some indeed
come with a statement saying so) if you ever by a new gun and the barrel is
clean then I would be concerned. The second part of your complaint is the
price. The price of anything varies from store to store if you had haggled a
little on price you would have saved a little money. Gunshows are not swap
meets or fleamarkets. What they are is several dealers getting under one roof
for a little competitive sells. greg@okcgs.com


I would like to add another ? to this post. I now know to do research before I buy. I don't know why I thought a gun would be any different than anything else. My other question is about they way he says that he would be worried if he got a brand new gun that was clean. Is this true or is he an idiot. I'm sure there may be occasions but to say that it is normal to buy a dirty gun seems ridiculous. That's like buying a new car with 10000 miles on it and the salesman saying it was done while moving the vehicle around the lot. You have no idea what has been done with either one prior to you becoming the new owner. This gun was in the box with all the paperwork and NO statement that it had been test fired at the factory.


[This message has been edited by HukeOKC (edited March 21, 2000).]
 
HukeOKC...Chalk the whole thing up to "learning Experience" and the next time, shop around.
A $20 loss is not worth the trouble to try and go after this guy.
When I go to a gun show, I know what I want and about what I will pay.
Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me

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"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."
 
Well, I have ran into my share of dealers both at their shops and at gun shows that must think I'm either rich on an idiot. then again, I remember getting some of my best deals at gun shows as well. The thing is that it's not the dealers responsibility to do your home work for you. You have to be the one to think ahead, get more information on what you are thinking of buying and be you own best judge. Myself, when I go to a gun show, I bring a Blue Book, the latest issues of Gun Lists and Shotgun News, cleaning gear, bore lights, and since I look a lot at military rifles, heaspace guages of various calibers. I carry this stuff around with me and if I run into something I want, I check it over closely for any problems first. I also have a pretty good idea what it's worth and what the dealer payed for it. The result is that I haven't been taken advantage of and gotten screwed over. I just don't give them the chance to even try. It's a buyer beware world out there and it's a responsibility up to you to make sure you know exactly what you are buying. Sorry to sound harsh about it, but it's just the way the world works.
 
I agree with you both 100%. Even USMCGrunt. I respect your reply and have learned a lot from this whole deal. I just got too excited, and for lack of more time to research, stupid. Fortunately I don't think of myself as an idiot and will for sure check around more next time. The deal on this one is that I walked the whole show and didn't find anything cheaper. My cousin had just bought the same gun except in a 38 special cal. and paid over $120. I thought when I came across this that I was doing pretty good. And you're absolutely right, I had not done my homework and I paid for it, (literally) .
 
Just curious but what "waiting period" are you referring to? I am in OK. Outdoor America is a pretty good store. I've had good luck there when I know what I want. Start there next time and also save the door charge.
 
The last time I bought a handgun (Bersa series 95 .380) which was about 2 years ago, I had to wait 5 days for that Brady Bill waiting period. I am waiting on my CCW license to come in approved so I would have to wait to buy that Derringer if I had bought it at OA. And yes OA is a great store. I had previously bought all my guns from them but just slipped this once. OOPS!
 
When I go to a gun show I have an idea of what I may be looking for and have checked prices before hand. When I get there I start looking and I don't buy anything until I've walked the whole show at least once.Then when I'm sure I found the best price then I go back and spend my money.Who knows you may have found something better and for a better price.
Hope this helps :)

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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
 
My best advice is:

(1) Buyer beware!

(2) Only buy quality guns, usually you don't
find them under $ 200.00 (and currently going up). Remember you get what you pay for! Why stake your like on a cheap gun that may fail you? Why should the computer you are using cost more than your gun???
Your computer will not save your life!

(3) Do your home work before shopping. Know
what you are looking for, the specific brand(s)and model(s)and know the prices both new and used. Don't be distracted by something that does not meet your predetermined criteria for make and model.

(4) If you don't know what your are doing
either: (a) stay away from gun shows, or (b) find a friend that is experienced at this sort of thing. (The sharks are in the water and you look like lunch.)

(5) For the absolutely "gun illiterate" get some references on the best gun dealer in your area. A local gun dealer builds his business by maintaining a good reputation. But don't go near a gun show or a pawn shop.

Yes, you may find some great buys at gun shows, but you local store front gun dealer will usually stand behind what he sells.

There are a lot of "check points" in assessing a used gun, and they vary according to the type of gun (i.e. revolver, semi-automatics, etc.). That may be beyond the scope of this thread.
 
Industry standard calls for firearms to be proof tested prior to being release into the stream of commerce. Besides testing for functioning, this includes firing with an extra hi-pressure load to ensure the integrity of the firearm. Unless the firearm is blackpowder, it is quite common for the gun to be sold "uncleaned" after the test. Cleaning requires labor and the cost the consumer pays would increase.
 
I occasionally go to gun stores even if I dont intend to buy a gun. Just look around and talk with the dealers and of course check their tags. That way I know which one has a cheaper price on a particular model. Some stores may have higher price on some models but after a week or two they'll offer gun show prices for all their products.

vega
 
Regarding the $20 price difference, it happens. Sometimes people just want something ASAP, and we don't bother checking around for the best price. Like DorGunR said "learning experience".

As for the test fired gun, I'm pretty sure this is normal for the industry. I would compare those test firings to the .6 miles on the odometer of a new car. Yes it has some wear, but insignificant when compared to the number of rounds you'll probably put thru the gun. When was the last time you saw a brand new car with exactly 0.0 miles?

OTOH, if the gun was really dirty, and the guy says it's new, he's lying. Kinda like rolling back odometers I guess.
 
Thanks Vega, I'll certainly do that in the future.

Oh yeah jco, I have never bought a truck with 0 miles. In fact, the lowest I've bought was at 7 miles. I attributed that to a couple of test drives and this and that. I had bought that one at the end of that model year. No this gun seems a little more dirty than just a test round. It almost looks like what M16 used to look like after a day at the range. Well OK, maybe not THAT bad but it was pretty dirty.;-)
 
When I got my Calico home from the show, right out of the box, I cleaned it. CHIPS fell out! And that was a gun that retailed for ~ $600 before the "assault weapons" ban.

Agreed, they OUGHT to clean them after they test fire them. Don't count on it, though.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
Sounds like you paid 20 bucks to be able to buy without filling out a 4473. I am a true believer in laissez-faire(sp?) capitalism, but it does bother me to see private sellers asking gouge-prices for handguns because of the lack of paperwork. Are they deliberately trolling for prohibited buyers? I've seen $400 Colt Troopers, $450 FEG Hi-Powers, $300 S&W M10's that look like they were run over by the patrol car. Again, I don't think it should be regulated, but I never miss an opportunity to give those sellers a piece of my mind.
 
Thanks, at least I know now to bring my inspection tools. I've got a barrel light and different tools that I used to use to inspect my soldiers weapons. They WILL be with me next time.

I filled out a yellow form, not sure of the #, but they called in the info for an instant check. This table was ran by a dealer and so all handgun sales had to have instant background checks. Only the tables ran by private citizens are not subject to the checks. But if I had bought it at a sporting goods or gun store I would have had to wait out the 5 days for the Brady Bill.

[This message has been edited by HukeOKC (edited March 23, 2000).]
 
I work part-time for my favorite local gun shop, and all of the new firearms we take in for sale have powder residue in them from the test firings. Most of them are fired 5-10 times, not just once. It doesn't take many rounds to produce a lot of residue.

I also noted that you bought a Derringer, which indicates a very short barrel. That, too, will contribute to unburned powder and additional residue.

As to the price, the other posters here have offered ample advice on the matter. The bottom line is that it's your money, so you take the responsibility of doing the homework ahead of time or bringing along a friend who is more knowledgeable. When I first got started, the latter method was my favorite as the comraderie was an added bonus. And as was said, $20 isn't too expensive a lesson to learn. There have certainly been people taken for a LOT more!

(Just don't make it a habit, or you'll help inflate the prices for the rest of us, too! ;))
 
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