I've been loading a lot of rifle cartridges and am going to start loading for husbands smith 686+. I like to shoot 38 out of it and he likes the 357. So far all my dies are Lee with exception of Hornady and RCBS in 260 and 308. Very been looking at the Lee carbide 4 die set. Is this a good set of dies for the handgun loading. Straight wall cases and crimping is all going to be new to me. Watched a lot of you tube videos and it seems no matter what die they are using they still have a Lee crimp die. Would like some advice from the experienced before Midway gets more money.
Getting Ready to start loading 38 and 357
- Thread starter Wendyj
- Start date
Bucksnort1
New member
WendyJ,
I knew there had to be at least one female on this forum. It's good to hear from you.
I use the Lee Turret press for 38/357 and I ALWAYS use the Lee factory crimp die. If you are using the four die set and you want to use the factory crimp die, you'll have to remove one die and install the crimp, if you are using the four position Lee Turret. I've also found I do not use the press in its intended manner; instead, I may use only two positions and sometimes only one. There is sometimes a problem with getting the next die, when you cycle the turret, to align properly with the case you are loading. I hear a lot of good things about the Turret press so don't be discouraged by my comments. The Lee system is very economical. If you are considering the Lee turret system, be sure to buy two extra four hole turret plates. You can install your 260 and308 dies in them. Be sure to buy the Lee kit with four hole capability and not the three hole turret.
Although I'm loading for the next revolution, I'm not a power loader so I'm not in a hurry to spit out rounds as fast as I can. There are other presses you can consider. I'm not an expert on them but the main difference in the Lee and the progressive presses is that in the Lee, you work with on cartridge at a time. The case remains in place while the dies move to the cartridge. With a progressive press, you have several cases moving from one die to the next.
It started with an RCBS Partner Press then evolved into mental illness.
I knew there had to be at least one female on this forum. It's good to hear from you.
I use the Lee Turret press for 38/357 and I ALWAYS use the Lee factory crimp die. If you are using the four die set and you want to use the factory crimp die, you'll have to remove one die and install the crimp, if you are using the four position Lee Turret. I've also found I do not use the press in its intended manner; instead, I may use only two positions and sometimes only one. There is sometimes a problem with getting the next die, when you cycle the turret, to align properly with the case you are loading. I hear a lot of good things about the Turret press so don't be discouraged by my comments. The Lee system is very economical. If you are considering the Lee turret system, be sure to buy two extra four hole turret plates. You can install your 260 and308 dies in them. Be sure to buy the Lee kit with four hole capability and not the three hole turret.
Although I'm loading for the next revolution, I'm not a power loader so I'm not in a hurry to spit out rounds as fast as I can. There are other presses you can consider. I'm not an expert on them but the main difference in the Lee and the progressive presses is that in the Lee, you work with on cartridge at a time. The case remains in place while the dies move to the cartridge. With a progressive press, you have several cases moving from one die to the next.
It started with an RCBS Partner Press then evolved into mental illness.
I load and shoot a lot of 38 Special - by far more than any other caliber. I use RCBS dies, along with a Lee Factory Crimp Die (FCD). I'm sure the other Lee dies (resize/decap, flair, seat) are good too.
I do recommend getting a taper crimp die as well the four die set you're planning on getting. (The Lee FCD - as well as the crimp die from any other 38/357 die set you purchase - is a roll-crimp die.) Taper crimp dies (TCD) are sold separately. Roll crimp is great and suits most needs. But if you intend to load with plated bullets and/or wadcutters, I recommend getting a taper crimp die as well. My TCD's are RCBS; but I would assume that Lee makes one too.
Taper crimping spares the brass so it can be reloaded many more times than if they were roll crimped. There's a time when roll crimping is necessary (hot 357's, for instance); but when it's not, a taper crimp is the better way to go.
I do recommend getting a taper crimp die as well the four die set you're planning on getting. (The Lee FCD - as well as the crimp die from any other 38/357 die set you purchase - is a roll-crimp die.) Taper crimp dies (TCD) are sold separately. Roll crimp is great and suits most needs. But if you intend to load with plated bullets and/or wadcutters, I recommend getting a taper crimp die as well. My TCD's are RCBS; but I would assume that Lee makes one too.
Taper crimping spares the brass so it can be reloaded many more times than if they were roll crimped. There's a time when roll crimping is necessary (hot 357's, for instance); but when it's not, a taper crimp is the better way to go.
I don't abide by that. Roll crimp is the right crimp, and only light enough to be little more than a taper crimp if plated bullets with no crimp groove. Armscor FMJ also has no groove.
The real question is whether lead bullets will be used. Then the Lee set is too tight. I use the RCBS Cowboy set for 38/357, and my ammo looks like new. The Hornady Cowboy set is a waste, because only the expander gives unique results compared to the regular set.
This leaves you without a separate crimp die, but the seat/crimp combo die is okay too, if you follow the setup instructions exactly.
The wisdom I gather is that 140 is the ideal bullet for 357 and 158 is ideal for 38 Special. I rather like the MO coated 140 "Zinger" in both, but I don't have any accuracy analysis for compromising weight on the 38 Special.
For me, 357 has at least three levels...small gun, target/SD; and full spec, rockem sockem.
-My small guns like model 60 and SP101 currently get 6.5 gr SR4756 with 125 MO coated LTCFP.
-My medium load is pretty stout at 15.0 gr 300-MP and 158 gr SWC. I have an older production 19-4 gun that has tight chambers for lead, so I load 14.6 gr 300-MP with 158 gr XTP, actually a bit milder than the lead load, but the gun isn't as massive to absorb recoil as the guns that get greater power in lead. I just followed the published load for XTP.
-My heavy loads are just purchased ammo at this point. I don't shoot it but use it for carry when seasonal dress allows concealment of a gun that large, typically a Ruger Security Six, an Interarms Rossi 971VRC, a Ruger Match Champion, or a Smith 686, all 4". Actually that ammo is too stout for guns of compromised size. The best shooter with the stout stuff is my 5" GP100. I don't have a Smith N-frame in 357 but expect those would be fun to shoot with the heavy, full spec stuff.
Be sure to buy (or make) coated bullets for the 357. You will do a lot less bore torture to get the gun clean.
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I'm only going to continue with the single stage press. Going to use 125 grain XP from Hornady in the 357. Not sure about the 38 yet. Good critical defense bullets are too expensive to spend a lot of range time. Might cost a little up front for dies, and bullets but we've been saving our brass for a year now just in case we wanted to do this. You tube makes it look fairly simple but I'm sure there is more too it than the bottleneck rifle cases we've been reloading. Not worried about the single stage. Might load a few hundred a month at most.
I load .357 cases for everything.
I make .38Spl level loads for plinking not .38Spl data but .357 light loads to .38 Spl velocities.
Why?
Cuz I don't constantly have to reset dies for the 2 lengths & I will never have to deal with that crusty .38Spl ring round the chamber either.
I also like the carbide FCD die for crimping as a separate stage from seating, but that usually gets about the welcome on here that would be reserved for a skunk in church!
I make .38Spl level loads for plinking not .38Spl data but .357 light loads to .38 Spl velocities.
Why?
Cuz I don't constantly have to reset dies for the 2 lengths & I will never have to deal with that crusty .38Spl ring round the chamber either.
I also like the carbide FCD die for crimping as a separate stage from seating, but that usually gets about the welcome on here that would be reserved for a skunk in church!
I'm the other way I guess, as I load and shoot far more 38 spec than 357.
Target loads with a cast 158 swc over bullseye powder using a lee 3 die set on a turret.
I'm going to do some 148 dewc's as well.
Some get fired in 357 chambers, others in 38 chambers.
I have more 38 spec brass than 357 though.
If I only had 357's i'd load in 357 brass.
Never used the FCD.
If I was buying a die set, the 4 die set is cheaper than a 3 die set and a separate FCD.
All my pistol dies except 22 tcm and 454 casull are lees.
Target loads with a cast 158 swc over bullseye powder using a lee 3 die set on a turret.
I'm going to do some 148 dewc's as well.
Some get fired in 357 chambers, others in 38 chambers.
I have more 38 spec brass than 357 though.
If I only had 357's i'd load in 357 brass.
Never used the FCD.
If I was buying a die set, the 4 die set is cheaper than a 3 die set and a separate FCD.
All my pistol dies except 22 tcm and 454 casull are lees.
lee n. field
New member
yes.
Get the .38 Special dieset. You'll be able to load .357 with it. (But not vice versa.) Get the 4 die set, with the Factory Crimp die. It can be handy.
I have both the .38sp and .357 in the Lee Dies and .38/357 in Hornady dies. After using them both (technically 3 but two companies), the Lee are really good dies, and for the money, just can't beat them. I was still having to purchase the Lee FCD anyway!
Now I have two 686's a 2.5" and a 6". After using full power .357's on both, they are not too much fun in the 2.5".
Soooo... after a bit I started shooting 38's and 38+P's out of them. The problem is that darn ring that develops in the cylinder when you try to shoot .357's after.
My solution, since I don't have a true .38? just download the .357 cases to +P, or low .357 range. Seriously, I'm just punching paper ( and am getting pretty good again at it! lol) The 2.5" snubbie is a joy to shoot now and no worries about rings in the cylinder anymore.
So on my Classic Turret I have a .38sp setup and a .357 setup. I'm interested in getting a nice light .38 someday, so all that .38 brass will come in handy!
Now I have two 686's a 2.5" and a 6". After using full power .357's on both, they are not too much fun in the 2.5".
Soooo... after a bit I started shooting 38's and 38+P's out of them. The problem is that darn ring that develops in the cylinder when you try to shoot .357's after.
My solution, since I don't have a true .38? just download the .357 cases to +P, or low .357 range. Seriously, I'm just punching paper ( and am getting pretty good again at it! lol) The 2.5" snubbie is a joy to shoot now and no worries about rings in the cylinder anymore.
So on my Classic Turret I have a .38sp setup and a .357 setup. I'm interested in getting a nice light .38 someday, so all that .38 brass will come in handy!
Bucksnort1
New member
Wogpotter,
Will you explain your second sentence about 38 spl level...? I'm a bit confused.
Will you explain your second sentence about 38 spl level...? I'm a bit confused.
great wendyJ, that's about the funnest(most fun for grammar nuts) and most versatile caliber to load for. my favorite is using 357 shells and using the 38+P data and 357mag data, and splitting the difference in the middle and having a very decent cartridge for self-defense that most people, including my wife, will shoot. for most 357 charges, I am a fan of 4227 powder and even TG is growing on me(even though the case capacity may feel all wrong, they are very consistent with TG), for 38 loads I prefer HP38. for full house, blow your palm out loads, H110 and lil' gun are smoking hot.
I bought the 357 set from lee(4 die) an have loaded more rounds than I can imagine, for myself and close friends that need special 357lite loads. great set, not the best for large CAST boolits since it has a sharp angle on the expander, would do better with a longer taper
I bought the 357 set from lee(4 die) an have loaded more rounds than I can imagine, for myself and close friends that need special 357lite loads. great set, not the best for large CAST boolits since it has a sharp angle on the expander, would do better with a longer taper
Overkill777
New member
I love loading 38 special and 357 magnum. I use the lee 4 die set and I have been happy with the results.
I use the factory crimp die for 357 magnum loads, which I load hot and using powders like H110 and IMR 4227 a good roll crimp is desired. For 38 spl I use 158 gr berrys plated bullets and use the bullet seating die to apply a taper crimp in a separate step after seating (to clarify I only have a single stage so I seat all my bullets with no crimp then I adjust the die and crimp all the rounds). The taper crimp is only to close up the case flare. I like hp38 and titegroup for 38.
I got into reloading mostly interested in rifle cartridges but found 38 & 357 to be probably my favorite to load.
I use the factory crimp die for 357 magnum loads, which I load hot and using powders like H110 and IMR 4227 a good roll crimp is desired. For 38 spl I use 158 gr berrys plated bullets and use the bullet seating die to apply a taper crimp in a separate step after seating (to clarify I only have a single stage so I seat all my bullets with no crimp then I adjust the die and crimp all the rounds). The taper crimp is only to close up the case flare. I like hp38 and titegroup for 38.
I got into reloading mostly interested in rifle cartridges but found 38 & 357 to be probably my favorite to load.
Minor topic drift
I know - right?! It amazes me how TG can fill the case only 20% (literally) and yet, deliver such consistent velocities on the chronograph.
But . . . TG is still more powder than I need. i.e. it's too slow for my application. I only need my 148gn DEWC's to go 710 f/s (to make IDPA PF), so faster stuff like Bullseye and Nito 100 burn more completely.
TiteGroup - with its touch of slowness - is actually capable of making defense loads for short barrels with light bullets. No, they won't be max velocity, of course. But they'll be low flash, low report, and low recoil. Well suited for snubbies.
I know - right?! It amazes me how TG can fill the case only 20% (literally) and yet, deliver such consistent velocities on the chronograph.
But . . . TG is still more powder than I need. i.e. it's too slow for my application. I only need my 148gn DEWC's to go 710 f/s (to make IDPA PF), so faster stuff like Bullseye and Nito 100 burn more completely.
TiteGroup - with its touch of slowness - is actually capable of making defense loads for short barrels with light bullets. No, they won't be max velocity, of course. But they'll be low flash, low report, and low recoil. Well suited for snubbies.
stubbicatt
New member
38/357 was for years my favorite cartridge. I drifted away from it to shoot 40's and 45's in 3 gun, but I have returned. Now that I'm older that running and gunning has lost a lot of its appeal. To my way of seeing things, 357 magnum in a nice lever actioned rifle, shooting home cast bullets, is a recipe for a wonderful fun day plinking. There's enough recoil to let you know you have shot a "real" rifle, but not enough to cause you to flinch, and the RNFP bullets make plinking targets jump pretty high in the air.
For *my* uses, the Lee 3 die set was perfect in my 4 hole LCT press. I don't use the FCD as in the past I noticed that it swaged down my cast slugs to .357 when using some brands of brass. Thus I just apply a sufficient roll crimp with the seater die. I have also added a RCBS expander die in station 2 as it reaches deeper into the case than the flare die, or powder thru expander die, provided with the Lee setup. I prefer to expand the cases enough to accept the cast bullet without swaging it down. The powder thru expander die is station 3, and it provides just a little flare on the case mouth.
I really like the safety prime system on the turret press. Heck, there's nothing about that press I don't like!
For mild loads I use 5 grains of 231, and for snappy loads a moderate charge of 2400 or IMR4227. These in 357 cases. I don't load 38's anymore for firearms chambered in 357 magnum as they leave a ring of stubborn fouling in the chambers which I don't enjoy removing.
Wendyj, I hope you enjoy the new twist to your hobby.
For *my* uses, the Lee 3 die set was perfect in my 4 hole LCT press. I don't use the FCD as in the past I noticed that it swaged down my cast slugs to .357 when using some brands of brass. Thus I just apply a sufficient roll crimp with the seater die. I have also added a RCBS expander die in station 2 as it reaches deeper into the case than the flare die, or powder thru expander die, provided with the Lee setup. I prefer to expand the cases enough to accept the cast bullet without swaging it down. The powder thru expander die is station 3, and it provides just a little flare on the case mouth.
I really like the safety prime system on the turret press. Heck, there's nothing about that press I don't like!
For mild loads I use 5 grains of 231, and for snappy loads a moderate charge of 2400 or IMR4227. These in 357 cases. I don't load 38's anymore for firearms chambered in 357 magnum as they leave a ring of stubborn fouling in the chambers which I don't enjoy removing.
Wendyj, I hope you enjoy the new twist to your hobby.
correct me if I am wrong, maybe his hasn't always been the case, but my 4 die set with the FCD is actually just a separate roll-crimp die, but it does have a sizing ring I believe. so yes I could see it swaging own overbore boolits, but if using standard sized bullets I prefer to crimp separate due to inconsistencies in brass length. the FCD for 357 is not the typical "collet" type FCD, at least not in my case.
I also like the safety prime system, but my small primer(black) arma-thingy stopped spitting out primers, appears to have a hair-line crack where you manual snap the plastic over the primer stem, I can complain since it has done probably 20k or more primer and it likely will cost about 5$ to replace.
I also like the safety prime system, but my small primer(black) arma-thingy stopped spitting out primers, appears to have a hair-line crack where you manual snap the plastic over the primer stem, I can complain since it has done probably 20k or more primer and it likely will cost about 5$ to replace.
Ole Joe Clark
New member
My reloading log starts in 1976, so I have a few years of experience under my belt.
To me, the .38/.357 reloading is the simplest of the simple. I still use a single stage Pacific to load everything on. At my age it's fast enough.
I prime with a Lee priming tool, and do everything else on the Pacific.
I size with a carbide size die, bell the mouth of the brass, drop the powder using a Pacific power drop, then seat the bullet and roll crimp at the same time.
Never had an issue that was not "operator error." Never sorted hulls, trimmed them, just checked for cracks after firing. Straight, rimmed pistol shells are easy to load. Just be careful, "it ain't rocket science."
To me, the .38/.357 reloading is the simplest of the simple. I still use a single stage Pacific to load everything on. At my age it's fast enough.
I prime with a Lee priming tool, and do everything else on the Pacific.
I size with a carbide size die, bell the mouth of the brass, drop the powder using a Pacific power drop, then seat the bullet and roll crimp at the same time.
Never had an issue that was not "operator error." Never sorted hulls, trimmed them, just checked for cracks after firing. Straight, rimmed pistol shells are easy to load. Just be careful, "it ain't rocket science."
I guess I'm oldschool, but 38/357 are the first I ever loaded, and the simplest to learn on. If you can't load and learn to crimp a 38/357 properly with a 3 die set, you might as well give up. Cast or jacketed, you resize, bell, and then seat/crimp and you are done. I'm still amazed that people go out and buy a special crimp die for a round that was designed for, and factory ammo comes with a roll crimp and about every 357 bullet has a cannelure to tell you where to put it. Every regular 38/357 die set comes with a roll crimp/seating die. A roll crimp is not complicated or rocket science. There is no easier round to learn on. Keep it simple.
I have Lyman, but RCBS, Hornady or about any standard 38/357 3 die set will work just fine. I highy recommend carbide dies so you can skip the case lube stage.
There are all kinds of formulas for loading 38s in 357 magnum cases. You are new. You want it simple? Ignore all that and follow the recipe book. Load 38s in 38s and load 357s in 357s until you feel confident to get more creative. Keep it simple.
I have Lyman, but RCBS, Hornady or about any standard 38/357 3 die set will work just fine. I highy recommend carbide dies so you can skip the case lube stage.
There are all kinds of formulas for loading 38s in 357 magnum cases. You are new. You want it simple? Ignore all that and follow the recipe book. Load 38s in 38s and load 357s in 357s until you feel confident to get more creative. Keep it simple.
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