Getting Ready to purchase my first H&K P7

sgoeing

New member
I am getting ready to buy my first P7, but i Can't decide between the M8 or the PSP. Which do you guys who carry prefer?
Are there any years of manufacture to watch out for. Are all the refurbs in pretty good mechanical order?(are any of them worn out) If I plan to have it refinished is there any downsides to getting a refurb?(besides the grind mark)
When buying do I only need to check the usual stuff when you buy a used gun or is there anything special to look out for? I am not familiar with the pistol so I don't want to miss anything.
Can't wait to get one,
Michael Goeing
 
Wise, wise man. I'd buy the M8 unless you have some fettish with euro mag releases. It's totally ambi and not quite as quirky and slow. If you're used to USPs, then a P7'll be a breeze.
 
The P7 and the USP have nothing to do with each other. They are completely different pistols, the only commonality being the "HK" on the slide.

The P7 is a fixed-barrel, gas-retarded squeeze cocker with an all-steel frame and a striker.

The USP is a short-recoil, Browning-locked, tilt-barrel double action pistol with a polymer frame and a hammer.

The manual of arms on these guns is as different as their construction...the P7 is potentially the fastest CCW gun into action, but requires a little training and familiarity.
 
A very wise choice--I congratulate you.

Whether the PSP or M8 (I have both) kind of depends on how you'll be carrying it and where.

The mag release on the M8 sticks out slightly and makes IWB carry uncomfortable for some people. It also is more prone to unintended magazine releases. The PSP is better in these two senses. Not everyone has either of these problems.

The M8 has a larger trigger guard, so it's easier to shoot with gloves. The American style mag release is faster to use, and as was noted above, is more consistent with what most people on this side of the lake are accustomed to.

The PSP has no heat guard above the trigger, and has a metal trigger--tends to get hotter, for some people uncomfortably so--during rapid fire.

Both versions have their devotees. Personally, I (slightly) prefer the PSP for carry. Both are among the best, if not THE best carry pistols. To argue in favor of one or the other is splitting hairs.

This design, in either version, is very near to indestructible, and given what the things cost, used P7's tend to have been well taken care of. A few things to check:

1. Pull out the firing pin and examine its housing for hairline cracks. This is one of the few components that has been reported to fail occasionally. Check the firing pin for corrosion--something also reported once in awhile.

2. Check the gas piston--the edges on the rings should be reasonably sharp. If the gun has been cleaned too aggresively (and not via the methods HK recommends) the rings may be rounded down, which will increase recoil.

3. Once every blue moon or so, someone reports extremely excessive recoil, which has been said to be tracked back to a cracked frame in the piston housing area. Try to shoot the gun you're interested in before purchase--and of course try to shoot a couple of other P7's to develop a baseline feel for how P7's shoot. Most people find all P7's to be among the lightest recoiling 9mm's extant. I've personally never seen a cracked frame on a P7, and I would rate this as among the most remote of possibilities.

Re the refurbs, HK did the work themselves, and other than the grind mark, these are usually reported as near or sometimes indistinguishable from new. They do NOT, however, come with HK's lifetime warranty, contrary to what is occasionally claimed--even if there's a blank warranty card in the box, HK is reported as not honoring warranty work. P7's rarely if ever need warranty work; but it's nice to the lifetime warranty.

For me, the main argument against the refurbs is that if you look around and are patient, you'll probably be able to find NIB or LNIB for not a great deal more money. I just bought a NIB PSP for $850. Last year I bought a NIB M8 for $800, and a NIB M13 for $1050. Refurbs are usually around $750, sometimes more. I've heard of prices as low as $500, and a bunch of people paid in the $650 range. For an extra hundred bucks or so--if you work at finding a great price--NIB with the warranty seems a better deal.

The only other issue of any note with the refurbs is that for some reason the white dots are said to work loose from the sights. This can be fixed with a touch of epoxy.

P7's of all varieties often have a brownish or purplish color cast to the slide--but not always. HK claims this results from chemical reactions between their bluing and the metal composition--I've heard that the zinc component of their alloy is the culprit. It's completely benign and indicates noting important about the gun, how it's been used, whether it was re-blued etc. I have no idea why only some guns demonstrate this--they tend to be older models. So maybe it develops over time, or maybe HK changed their bluing chemistry recently.

A few dealers claim that HK's quality control was better during the 80's than during the 90's--I've heard that some of the P7 cognoscenti prefer 80's guns as a result. I've personally never been able to detect any difference. The most recent p7's--I think only M8's, both new and refurbed--have some sort of disclaimer about guns being dangerous or something stamped on the slide. No one seems to like this. If you don't either, you'll want a something a couple of years old.

I believe only M8's were sold as refurbs.

Hope this is useful. I trust you'll love whatever model you end up with.
 
I recently purchased two of the refurbs. For slightly more than a NIB P7M8 I bought two guns that were perfectly functional. True, they both have the mill mark and one slide is blue and the other one purlish, but they are both in excellent condition. They are without a doubt the most accurate handguns that I own. I would check out these sites as well, http://www.hkpro.com http://www.parkcitiestactical.com http://www.hkp7.com .

Holsters for the P7M8, and the PSP are not that easy to find and you have to be careful which one you get. I just received an IWB holster from Matt DelFatti and you can find my review of it here-> http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=58855

My gunsmith says that parkerizing the slide will actually make the purple slide black, but I don't know first hand whether that's so. I personally am not bothered by the purplish pimp look though I may get one of them hard chromed.

As far as the difference in mag releases I can't see how I'd be able to unintentionally engage the P7M8's vs the euro style on the PSP. But hey Murphy is lurking out there and you never know. Just try both and see which one you like better. The P7M8 also has a slightly longer trigger guard and a heat shield which does IMHO help with the heat build up.

Good luck

PS.. MRW is dead on. Nicely put. :)
 
Thanks for the excellent replies guys. These are the type of post I love to read even if I wasn't the one asking the questions. Looks like I'll be picking up a P7 as soon as I decide which model I want.
Thanks a bundle guys,
Michael Goeing
 
MRW

If you don't mind my asking, where did you get a NIB P7(PSP) for $850? I've been searching for anything under a thousand. I've found one source selling M8's for about $1000, but not much less unless one settles for less than NIB. I'd settle for a hint, private dealers, online venders, etc.

-Morgan
 
lendringser...

If you would read Son of HK's post, you would see that he's talking about the mag releases being similar...nothing else.
 
Excellent post MRW, this is just the kind of information that is helpful. Unfortunately if you look at an earlier post, you will find I wasn't as lucky. Never the less I really got the bug to have one of these from these online comments.:) I may have to just chalk it up to "being taken" and move on. So far I haven't been able to do any shooting or such with mine, but I am looking forward to it.
 
Jspy,
I read your thread. That does worry me and was why I wanted some people to post some reputable suppliers they had dealt with before.
Thanks
Michael Goeing
 
Re sources for NIB P7's at good prices

I bought the PSP NIB from a collector in PA. He had it posted on GunsAmerica.com. The gun was unfired, made in the late 90's, and with all papers. Deals like this go fast. So I think it's essential to check these sites early in the morning and make an unambiguous offer immediately. This particular gun had a few offers within hours of being posted. I happened to be the first.

I bought an M8 and an M13, again, both unfired with all papers, from Dick's Gun Room in Akron Ohio at equally favorable prices. Dick's got both from a collector.

I think in the case of P7's, the collector angle is a great unexplored source of NIB guns at potentially favorable prices. A bunch of people on TFL, HKPRO and Park Cities Tactical all have mentioned that some of their P7 purchases are never used. For a gun of this type and cost, esp in a market that's been weaned and bred on 1911 type designs, some of these eventually make their way back into the market.

All I've done is put out requests to a bunch of dealers, and keep track of the on-line markets until something comes up that is both NIB and a great deal. Then I move quickly when I find what I want. So far, this has worked more rapidly than might be expected. I purchased the M series guns with about two weeks of looking. The PSP took about three weeks. The bottom line? Deals like this, while uncommon, appear to be out there--if you have the patience to look and wait, and the waiting may not be that long.

Hope this is useful and that I haven't belabored the obvious.
 
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