Getting pulled over...

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Savage10FP308

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I was pulled over a few years ago (I guess I thought of it because we covered the subject in a criminal justice class today) and I had a few questions to ask about the whole experience. I was leaving my aunt and uncles house at about 10:30 PM. They live on a side street and I pulled up at the stop sign to pull out onto main street. As I check both ways I see a cop car a few blocks over waiting to pull out just like me. I have my seatbelt on, I was at a complete stop, and I was using my blinker. I paused maybe a second or two to allow the officer, who is a few blocks over in the direction I am wanting to drive, to pull out ahead of me. They don't pull out so I go ahead and pull out. As soon as I pass the police car the officer whips out and almost hits the tail end on my truck. The officer is literally a few feet off my bumper. This kind of ticks me off so I brake check them (pretty hard):D and wouldn't you know it, the lights come on! I pull off on a side street and wait for the officer to walk up to the car. It is a female and she asks me if I know why I got pulled over. I say no, I didn't think I was violating any traffic laws and she tells me there are reports of a red truck peeling out in the area (my truck is maroon). I inform her of the color of my truck and ask her if I can leave since I didn't do anything wrong. She tells me to "let her do the talking" and takes about 20 min to run my license and registration. My question is can she do this? and what were my options (if any) in this situation? Thanks in advance.
 
Constitutionally, no. It was an illegal stop.

It was also conducted by an idiot, since she walked up and asked you if you knew why she had made a decision. If she didn't know at the time, then she had no business stopping you.

However, she was armed, and quite possibly being visited at the time by her monthly antagonist, so you apparantly were the recipient of her diatribes that day.

And since she was armed, and wanted to "do the talking" then she "can do it" but just illegally.
 
Thanks for the quick reply Gary.

Do you happen to know if I have any options in this case other than just letting her do whatever she wants?
 
Yup. One option would be to politely ask for her card. It will have all the information you need about her and how to locate her department and superior officers, etc. Then write down the date, time, and location of the stop on the back of the card and tuck it away in your wallet. Not that it's going to be an immediate help to the situation, but it will make her take a step back and consider just how justified her decision was at the idea her overstepping boundaries just went on paper. If it later becomes a pattern of unjustified stops, you have supporting documentation.
 
Savage:
Keep in mind however, in some cases, if you make a move toward your shirt pocket to retrieve that pen to write down her info, such an officer may well tazer you a few pops, claiming she felt you were a threat.

I'd simply mentally take a note of the time, unit number off the car, and later make a written note of the unit number in writing AFTER this public servant was off fighting crime elsewhere.
 
Constitutionally, no. It was an illegal stop
Click to expand...
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Um, if there was, in fact, a BOLO for a Red Pick-up truck, there's nothing illegal going on.

The whole "do you know why I stopped you?" is a silly question to ask, but it's an easy line for someone who doesn't quite know what to say. However, the standard answer is "No, I have no idea."

I prefer the "I stopped you because..." instead.
 
I had a simmilar experience once.

I pulled into an alley and found a police car headed twords me at about 70mph with no headlights (it was in the middle of the night). I slammed it into reverse and stomped on it. If I had not we would have hit head-on at a very uncomfortable speed. They then lit me up and pulled me over. They gave me a warning about reversing out of alleys at high speed.

I was smart enough to not give them a warning about tearing down alleys in the middle of the night with no headlights :D
 
and quite possibly being visited at the time by her monthly antagonist
Click to expand...

Was this really neccessary? Men don't get muscle cramps, head aches, body aches or the like? Men don't get ornery coz they never feel pain?

Really, now. You were doing so well til you slipped down to base misogyny.
 
OK. if they were in fact looking for a red vehicle, the stop is perfectly legal. As a matter of fact, anything that could be mistaken for red can, and should be stopped. Witnesses can be very inaccurate when giving discriptions. And at 10:30PM the light isn't too good anyway. Exact color will be hard to determine
As for the question she asked, it can serve a multitude of purposes.
1. Will you be stupid enough to admit to something? (I guess I was speeding)
2. It gives the Officer a chance to hear you speak. (are you slurring words)
3. Officer may be able to smell your breath. (have you had a few)
4. When you open the window to speak, does the delicate aroma of some illicit phamaceutical gently waft out of the car.
So, the cop did nothing wrong. She followed her training, and I would have been proud to have had her working in my division. She does not have to be sweet or even very polite, as long as she is civil. At the time, she had no reason to believe that you were not some skell looking for a chance to "Pop a Cop" I would have politely told you to shut up as well. Additionally, the Officer gets to wait until the requested information gets back to her. If it takes 2 minutes, or 20 minutes, you get to wait as well
You may not like it, but that's the way it is.
Y.D.
 
There are, for the purposes of this discussion, two types of legal traffic stops. A stop based on probable cause (as in a witnessed traffic violation), and a stop based on reasonable suspicion, known as a Terry stop.

Based on what you've told us, the stop made on you was neither, and was an improper stop. Had your truck been red, and the officer had a partial plate on the suspect vehicle, say the last 2 digits were 69, and yours matched that, the stop would have been reasonable.

The catch is, what is reasonable? There is no real criteria set in stone, and every situation is different, but the officer's suspicion must be based on things that set you apart from others. Simply having a vehicle of a certain color doesn't cut it, because of the sheer number of red trucks out there. Being in the immediate area of the "offense" is part of it, but still not enough to justify a Terry stop.

Now if the truck squealing tires had been reported moments before your appearance, that, along with location and color of your truck, would be about the bare minimum for a valid stop. Now you have 3 elements: time frame, location, and a (barely) matching description.

If there were something else to narrow it down, say a reported white decal on the left side of the rear window, and yours had something similar, the stop would certainly be valid.

Even LEO's sometimes have difficulty determining whether a stop was a valid Terry, because there is no specific criteria for one. The courts have ruled that a Terry stop is only valid when the circumstances are such that a reasonable and prudent man would be suspicious of that person or vehicle.

As to your response, Gary nailed it. During the stop, you're in a no-win situation. Contain your frustration, smile through grit teeth, and do what the nice lady tells you to, without back talk :D .

Go to her cop shop and ask to speak to a supervisor. If the supervisor is unreceptive, go to Internal Affairs and file a formal complaint.

I will tell you this, though; unless the officer was way out of line, the worst she's probably going to get is a verbal reprimand because of the lack of spelled out criteria for the stop, and while 20 minutes might be stretching it a bit, it's still a reasonable time length for a stop. Sometimes dispatchers are backed up, or NCIC can run slow.

I understand that stops like these can be upsetting or even frightening to some, but in the overall scope of things, yours was a relatively minor occurance. Were I in your shoes on this, I'd shrug it off as one of life's little irritations.
 
I was in my early 20's driving around 1 AM, stopped at a red light.
Cop stops behind me, Turns his lights on me as soon as the light changed. Walks up to my door and asks
" where are you going?"
"Home" I reply.
" where have you been"?
" at my g/f's house"
"What were you doing there"?
" What do you think I was doing there at 1 AM"?
No answer.
He takes my paper work and returns to his car. Several other cop cars pull up. They all have lights flashing, all get out and are standing in the street talking. I am thinking OMG whats up? After a half hour or more I get up my nerve and go back and ask
" Is there a problem"?
"No".
" can I go then?"
"Oh OK", Gives me my paper work and I am on my way.
It was obvious I was being used as a prop so they could all stand around and BS and look like they were working.

Bad cop no donut.
 
As far as the "non-matching" description, I challenge you to post a picture of your truck, and let everyone decide what they would call it if they only got a glimpse of it. Reason being, people have a tendency to identify a color in the simplest form they can manage. I work in the paint industry, and many a time people come in and identify colors that way, usually once a day. Even my experienced contractors will tell me, "Hey, I need more of that green!" when the color is really more of a teal. :eek:

My point is: if a group of gang bangers did a drive by on my house, and all I could tell the cops was it was a "blue, four door sedan," I hope when they find one that might seem more "aqua" than blue that they still pull it over. No disrespect, but if your truck was yellow and they stopped you while looking for a red one, I would understand your frustration. Why is there such a general frustration towards LEO's doing their jobs?
 
Sounds like she might have been a little irritated that you brake checked her. I dont really know if that is illegal or not. But she was probably trying to run your license plate numbers and looking down and saw your red lights going too slowly suddenly and that made her hit her brakes real hard. Which is kinda funny. :p But she "seemed obvisouly" like she wanted to get you because she waited for you to come to her, then she pulled out very quikely. Its a good story to tell and lighten up.


PS Maroon is red enough to be called red :D
 
If I understand the facts described, it sounds like she was sitting at the stop sign when you pulled up. If that's the case, then you failed to yield the right of way when you proceeded through the stop sign. That's a minor traffic violation, but it's reasonable suspicion for a Terry stop. (Look up a case called Terry v. Ohio. It basically guts the 4th Amendment for cursory inspections of the cab of a vehicle.)

That said, it was really stupid to brake check a cop. :rolleyes: That's typically a sure-fire way to get a traffic ticket. Intentionally braking to try to get the jerk behind you to rear-end you is, arguably, reckless driving. The fines are pretty stiff on that.

That said, if she was following a BOLO for a red truck, then that BOLO also serves as reasonable suspicion for a Terry stop.

Your question was, if you get pulled over in this kind of a situation, is there anything you can do about it? Answer: Yes, there is. Sit quietly. Answer politely. Don't be sarcastic. And try not to spit any more testosterone at the cop than absolutely necessary.
 
Was this really neccessary? Men don't get muscle cramps, head aches, body aches or the like? Men don't get ornery coz they never feel pain?

Really, now. You were doing so well til you slipped down to base misogyny.
Click to expand...

Dear Gfyn:

In response, I do not have a base hatred of women. In fact, I have been married to the same one for over 25 years now, and have a daughter who feels far differently about my feelings toward woman than you described me as having.

My advice stands. Here is why.

Due to the fact that the exact same reasons have been used hundreds of times as defense for all types of actions, up to and including a murder defense it is not outside the realm of possiblity that this particular female officer might not be in a great mood should that condition exist at the time of that stop. Trust me, I've seen women who have had that before, and they are not in the best of moods. (If you don't believe me, try antagonizing one with a stick)

Conversely, had it been a male officer, I would give him the exact same advice since the chance that elevated testosterone levels induced by steoroids utilized by some (not all, not the majority, but SOME) officers to bulk up could cause a similar reaction.

The best advice when dealing with officers in today's time is to make no move toward a pen or pencil, don't ask for anything but instructions, and it is probably the best course, to keep your mouth shut till they have moved safely out of the area.

There's no hatred of women here. Just 26 years of experience in making sure to get out of harms way.
 
Why do we always talk about PMS and menstral cramps using only pronouns?

Just an observation...

And, yeah, agitating with stick = swollen lip!
 
???

"If I understand the facts described, it sounds like she was sitting at the stop sign when you pulled up. If that's the case, then you failed to yield the right of way when you proceeded through the stop sign."

You didn't understand the facts described. I pulled up to mainstreet which runs east-west. I was on a road that runs north-south. I was on the north side of main street and I wanted to turn west. One block to my west was a police car. She was sitting there when I pulled up. I made a COMPLETE stop, used my blinker, and made a slow and safe turn all while wearing my safety belt. She pulled out like she was trying to knock the bed of my truck off and barely missed. She then got as close to my bumper as humanly possible.

"That said, it was really stupid to brake check a cop. That's typically a sure-fire way to get a traffic ticket. Intentionally braking to try to get the jerk behind you to rear-end you is, arguably, reckless driving. The fines are pretty stiff on that."

:rolleyes: Give me a break man! It was really stupid of the cop to ride my butt! If she hit me it is her fault. "Didn't you see that cat run out in the road officer?" My dad sells insurance and has now for about 32 years. If someone pulls out in front of you and you hit them in the side of the vehicle then it is the person who pull out who is at fault. If you hit a vehicle in the rear, then it is automatically your fault. Failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident. The stations insurance would have bought me a new tail end because she thought she would play "tough cop" on me and ride my butt. And one more thing, it's really hard to get a traffic ticket if you don't violate any traffic laws.

"Were I in your shoes on this, I'd shrug it off as one of life's little irritations."

Seeing that it's been a few years ago I dont really think I'm whining about it. I just wanted to know some facts and my options (if any).
 
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