I just read Bush's policies on guns(www.georgewbush.com)and my blood is boiling! Formerly I intended to vote for him as the best way to keep Gore out of office. That may still be the case, but Bush and Gore are so similar in their disregard for the Second Amendment that I cannot vote for GWB and live with myself. It's Harry Browne, and no, I DON'T believe it's a wasted vote.
George W. Gore?
- Thread starter glockten
- Start date
- Status
Glockten, sorry if I'm a bit tense, but this election is still very close, and Gore can still win. Here in TX, Bush has signed the CHL bill, relaxed it further in 1997 and signed a bill to ban municipal lawsuits against the gun industry. In my view, these lawsuits, if allowed to continue by a Gore administration, are the greatest threat, and Gore has said he will encourage them. You've undoubtedly noticed the consistent increase in gun prices and how well S&W is doing thanks to the Clinton/Gore administration. Also, Bush signed the anti-lawsuit bill after Columbine when it was very fashionable to be for gun control. Again, the race is too close, and Gore could win.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Problem with Gore is you have NO clue as to what his real position is because he's willing to flip-flop and outright lie for whatever suits his purposes.
He says that he doesn't want to affect hunters and sport shooters.
My reply to that is BS. He doesn't CARE about sport shooters, hunters, or people who are trying to defend themselves.
At least with Bush, I have a pretty good idea as to his feelings. As others have noted, he's been a supporter of gun rights in Texas.
While Mr. Brown may be more gun friendly, I personally absolutely REFUSE to waste my vote on a candidate who's generally not even pulling 1% of the national vote, and who for the most part isn't even included on national polls for that reason.
People played that game in 1992 with that A**HOLE Ross Perot, and look what the hell we've had to suffer through for the last 8 years!
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
He says that he doesn't want to affect hunters and sport shooters.
My reply to that is BS. He doesn't CARE about sport shooters, hunters, or people who are trying to defend themselves.
At least with Bush, I have a pretty good idea as to his feelings. As others have noted, he's been a supporter of gun rights in Texas.
While Mr. Brown may be more gun friendly, I personally absolutely REFUSE to waste my vote on a candidate who's generally not even pulling 1% of the national vote, and who for the most part isn't even included on national polls for that reason.
People played that game in 1992 with that A**HOLE Ross Perot, and look what the hell we've had to suffer through for the last 8 years!
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
If you vote for Harry, you will be taking votes away from Bush and Gore will win the election. Do you *REALLY* want that?
Lets not forget how Perot got us into this Clinton mess in the first place...
Vote Freedom First! Don't waste your vote on candidates that have zero chance of winning.
The object here is to get Gore OUT of the White House, getting RID of RENO and the HUD lawsuit BS...
Lets not forget how Perot got us into this Clinton mess in the first place...
Vote Freedom First! Don't waste your vote on candidates that have zero chance of winning.
The object here is to get Gore OUT of the White House, getting RID of RENO and the HUD lawsuit BS...
Three comments:
1&2: Harry Browne does NOT want it to be "legal for 10 year olds to walk into drugstores and buy heroin" (And it's spelled "heroin," a "heroine" is a female hero.), anymore than Bush wants it to be "legal for 10 year olds to walk into gun shows and buy machineguns." Stop with the BS propaganda, please.
2: Since the press has already decided that gore is the winner, why waste your time voting for Bush? Same logic, bigger numbers.
3: from 2 weeks ago:
Are you a coward? Do you say things like, “I’d like to vote for a third party, but I don’t want to throw my vote away”? Do you say things like, “I hate to vote for the lesser of two evils, but...”
Do you lack the courage to stop being a sheeple?
It’s time. Time to cut the apron strings to Maaama Dummycrap and Daaady Reprobate. Time to be an adult. Time to make a decision.
The laughingly called and traditional but not mandated “two party system” is corrupt. Let’s face it: Al Gore is a Socialist. George Bush is a Socialist. They both support social programs at taxpayer’s expense. Maybe this is a good idea, maybe not, but the fact is, it is SOCIALIST.
Do you favor Socialism and government controls? Then be honest and vote for Ralph Nader. The lesson to Al Gore is, “these people WOULD HAVE voted for you, if you gave them what they wanted.”
Do you support the 2nd Amendment? Is it of utmost importance to you? Then vote for Harry Browne. No, it ISN’T “a vote for Gore.” A vote for Nader ISN’T “a vote for Bush.” A vote for Browne is a vote for Browne. A vote for Nader is a vote for Nader.
To believe otherwise is to accept that the either-or decision is made for you. Why stop there? Gore leads in the polls, so why waste your time voting for Bush? The press favors the Democrats, so why think? Just pull the arm and accept it. Better yet, stay home. What does one vote matter, anyway?
The Communist Party of the United States never elected a single candidate to office...and has accomplished EVERY SINGLE ONE of its goals. They did it by “throwing their vote away,” and denying votes to Democrats. The Democratic Party changed it’s tune to accomodate them.
Sad but true: only the Republicans currently are oriented at all toward gun owners. Time to apply the lesson. Right behavior--relentless support of the 2nd Amendment--gets votes. Wrong behavior--anything else--loses votes to Libertarians who WILL support it. This is how the “Religious Right” gets what it wants for its agenda. They are never going to vote for a Democrat, but they can, and will, vote AGAINST a Republican who won’t toe their line. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, it works.
The NRA has thrown in the towel, endorsing safe storage, background checks, the whole anti-gun party line of 20 years ago. Piecemeal surrender is surrender just the same. Tear up the card, join GOA or KABA or some other group that MEANS it and doesn’t spend millions to beg for money to use to compromise your rights. Then give any remainder to your local Libertarian candidate. If you’re in Indiana State Senate District 36, I’d sure like to have it. I’m going to a candidates forum next Monday at the “Indiana Citizens Concerned About Gun Violence” meeing. I intend to be honest with them. You may see the screaming headlines about that on Tuesday.
The only real “wasted” vote is a vote for a candidate who doesn’t represent you. If you vote for Gore or Bush, you are telling them that their position is acceptable to you. Not that it’s the lesser evil, but ACCEPTABLE.
Bush is a religious bigot who would deny my wife her choice of worship. He is an anti-gun crusader who will deny my daughter her right to use my AR-15. Vote for him? Whatever for?
Vote for Gore? Whatever for?
It’s said that “If you don’t vote you can’t b!tch.” But if you come to me after the election, tell me you’re an NRA member and vote for Bush and feel betrayed, I will laugh in your face. Then I’ll call you a coward.
Because you threw your vote away.
Imagine if 1 gunowner in 4 woke up and voted for Harry Browne. Imagine 20 million votes for a 3rd party candidate. Think that lesson would wake lil Georgie up?
Or just imagine if he lost by a half million votes...that he COULD have had. Which lesson would be the more bitter?
I’d love to vote for a Republican candidate in November...but I don’t want to throw my vote away.
“If you are part of a society that votes, DO SO! There may not be anyone you wish to vote for, but there is certainly someone you wish to vote against.”
Lt. Robert A. Heinlein
Ó2000 by Michael Z. Williamson. Permission granted to copy in toto for non-profit purposes, provided due credit is given.
------------------
“It is criminal not to teach a man to defend himself when he is the
constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a
shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law.”--Malcolm X
1&2: Harry Browne does NOT want it to be "legal for 10 year olds to walk into drugstores and buy heroin" (And it's spelled "heroin," a "heroine" is a female hero.), anymore than Bush wants it to be "legal for 10 year olds to walk into gun shows and buy machineguns." Stop with the BS propaganda, please.
2: Since the press has already decided that gore is the winner, why waste your time voting for Bush? Same logic, bigger numbers.
3: from 2 weeks ago:
Are you a coward? Do you say things like, “I’d like to vote for a third party, but I don’t want to throw my vote away”? Do you say things like, “I hate to vote for the lesser of two evils, but...”
Do you lack the courage to stop being a sheeple?
It’s time. Time to cut the apron strings to Maaama Dummycrap and Daaady Reprobate. Time to be an adult. Time to make a decision.
The laughingly called and traditional but not mandated “two party system” is corrupt. Let’s face it: Al Gore is a Socialist. George Bush is a Socialist. They both support social programs at taxpayer’s expense. Maybe this is a good idea, maybe not, but the fact is, it is SOCIALIST.
Do you favor Socialism and government controls? Then be honest and vote for Ralph Nader. The lesson to Al Gore is, “these people WOULD HAVE voted for you, if you gave them what they wanted.”
Do you support the 2nd Amendment? Is it of utmost importance to you? Then vote for Harry Browne. No, it ISN’T “a vote for Gore.” A vote for Nader ISN’T “a vote for Bush.” A vote for Browne is a vote for Browne. A vote for Nader is a vote for Nader.
To believe otherwise is to accept that the either-or decision is made for you. Why stop there? Gore leads in the polls, so why waste your time voting for Bush? The press favors the Democrats, so why think? Just pull the arm and accept it. Better yet, stay home. What does one vote matter, anyway?
The Communist Party of the United States never elected a single candidate to office...and has accomplished EVERY SINGLE ONE of its goals. They did it by “throwing their vote away,” and denying votes to Democrats. The Democratic Party changed it’s tune to accomodate them.
Sad but true: only the Republicans currently are oriented at all toward gun owners. Time to apply the lesson. Right behavior--relentless support of the 2nd Amendment--gets votes. Wrong behavior--anything else--loses votes to Libertarians who WILL support it. This is how the “Religious Right” gets what it wants for its agenda. They are never going to vote for a Democrat, but they can, and will, vote AGAINST a Republican who won’t toe their line. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, it works.
The NRA has thrown in the towel, endorsing safe storage, background checks, the whole anti-gun party line of 20 years ago. Piecemeal surrender is surrender just the same. Tear up the card, join GOA or KABA or some other group that MEANS it and doesn’t spend millions to beg for money to use to compromise your rights. Then give any remainder to your local Libertarian candidate. If you’re in Indiana State Senate District 36, I’d sure like to have it. I’m going to a candidates forum next Monday at the “Indiana Citizens Concerned About Gun Violence” meeing. I intend to be honest with them. You may see the screaming headlines about that on Tuesday.
The only real “wasted” vote is a vote for a candidate who doesn’t represent you. If you vote for Gore or Bush, you are telling them that their position is acceptable to you. Not that it’s the lesser evil, but ACCEPTABLE.
Bush is a religious bigot who would deny my wife her choice of worship. He is an anti-gun crusader who will deny my daughter her right to use my AR-15. Vote for him? Whatever for?
Vote for Gore? Whatever for?
It’s said that “If you don’t vote you can’t b!tch.” But if you come to me after the election, tell me you’re an NRA member and vote for Bush and feel betrayed, I will laugh in your face. Then I’ll call you a coward.
Because you threw your vote away.
Imagine if 1 gunowner in 4 woke up and voted for Harry Browne. Imagine 20 million votes for a 3rd party candidate. Think that lesson would wake lil Georgie up?
Or just imagine if he lost by a half million votes...that he COULD have had. Which lesson would be the more bitter?
I’d love to vote for a Republican candidate in November...but I don’t want to throw my vote away.
“If you are part of a society that votes, DO SO! There may not be anyone you wish to vote for, but there is certainly someone you wish to vote against.”
Lt. Robert A. Heinlein
Ó2000 by Michael Z. Williamson. Permission granted to copy in toto for non-profit purposes, provided due credit is given.
------------------
“It is criminal not to teach a man to defend himself when he is the
constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a
shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law.”--Malcolm X
glockten,
I'm a Libertarian myself, but I vote Republican. Believe me, right now, at this particular moment in time, no matter what you tell yourself, a vote for the Libertarian party is a wasted vote.
I hate to say it, but it's true.
The outcome of this immediate election is more important than you acting on principle in this specific case. If you vote for Brown, you are helping Gore, pure and simple. Others on this forum shouldn't be concerned that you are a Gore plant, as it is of no consequence.
Firingliners know the score and know which way to vote--and it rhymes with "tush".
------------------
Let's just hope we don't get Gore'd in November.
I don't know about everyone else, but I'd much
rather get some Bush.
I'm a Libertarian myself, but I vote Republican. Believe me, right now, at this particular moment in time, no matter what you tell yourself, a vote for the Libertarian party is a wasted vote.
I hate to say it, but it's true.
The outcome of this immediate election is more important than you acting on principle in this specific case. If you vote for Brown, you are helping Gore, pure and simple. Others on this forum shouldn't be concerned that you are a Gore plant, as it is of no consequence.
Firingliners know the score and know which way to vote--and it rhymes with "tush".
------------------
Let's just hope we don't get Gore'd in November.
I don't know about everyone else, but I'd much
rather get some Bush.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by viper:
glockten,
I'm a Libertarian myself, but I vote Republican. Believe me, right now, at this particular moment in time, no matter what you tell yourself, a vote for the Libertarian party is a wasted vote.
I hate to say it, but it's true.
The outcome of this immediate election is more important than you acting on principle in this specific case. If you vote for Brown, you are helping Gore, pure and simple. Others on this forum shouldn't be concerned that you are a Gore plant, as it is of no consequence.
Firingliners know the score and know which way to vote--and it rhymes with "tush".
[/quote]
It depends on in which state you live, viper.
glockten,
I'm a Libertarian myself, but I vote Republican. Believe me, right now, at this particular moment in time, no matter what you tell yourself, a vote for the Libertarian party is a wasted vote.
I hate to say it, but it's true.
The outcome of this immediate election is more important than you acting on principle in this specific case. If you vote for Brown, you are helping Gore, pure and simple. Others on this forum shouldn't be concerned that you are a Gore plant, as it is of no consequence.
Firingliners know the score and know which way to vote--and it rhymes with "tush".
[/quote]
It depends on in which state you live, viper.
Mike Irwin
Staff
MadMike,
Damn, man, use paragraphs!
That was virtually impossible to read. My eyes started freaking out halfway through.
As for your position on getting away from Bush/Gore, I'll continue to vote Republican.
Why?
Because my viewpoints are STILL best represented by the Republican platform, NOT Harry Brown's.
And who said that Brown wants 10-year-olds to be able to buy heroin?
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
Damn, man, use paragraphs!
That was virtually impossible to read. My eyes started freaking out halfway through.
As for your position on getting away from Bush/Gore, I'll continue to vote Republican.
Why?
Because my viewpoints are STILL best represented by the Republican platform, NOT Harry Brown's.
And who said that Brown wants 10-year-olds to be able to buy heroin?
------------------
Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
Shooter 2.5
New member
As much as I can admire the Libertarian Party I can not vote for them under any circumstances. My son went to one of their party meetings and all he could tell me about them was to shake his head. I would suggest for the people who are actively voting for them to please go to their meetings and check them out further. My reason for not voting for them is that as I understand it, they want to remove the border patrol and open up the borders. The next thing is to do away with the minimum wage laws.
I believe that the combination of those two items would ruin this country. If someone from the Libertarian Party could correct me on this, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
I believe that the combination of those two items would ruin this country. If someone from the Libertarian Party could correct me on this, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
Shooter 2.5
New member
I forgot to add that I'm voting for Bush because I believe he's more pro-gun that he is telling the media and gore is more anti than he's letting the people to believe.
Mike Irwin
Staff
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pawcatch:
Madmike,Harry Brown was on "policticaly incorrect" and he said that before WW1 any ten yearold could walk in and buy heroin.And I bet you never beat a racoon to death.[/quote]
Yeah, they actually could. Well, children generally couldn't. Most druggists wouldn't sell that stuff to children, becuase they had a pretty good idea what it would do.
People back then could also buy:
Laudnum (tincture of Opium)
Paragoric (tincture of Morphine)
Any number of patent medications with high concentrations of alcohol.
What was generally missing from public conciousness back then, though, was wide-spread knowledge of the effects and side effects of these substances.
There are some very good reasons why they were highly regulated. And there are any number of good reasons why they should still be highly regulated.
There are also some very good reasons why dealers should be tried and executed at streetside in the neighborhoods where they are dealing.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited October 23, 2000).]
Madmike,Harry Brown was on "policticaly incorrect" and he said that before WW1 any ten yearold could walk in and buy heroin.And I bet you never beat a racoon to death.[/quote]
Yeah, they actually could. Well, children generally couldn't. Most druggists wouldn't sell that stuff to children, becuase they had a pretty good idea what it would do.
People back then could also buy:
Laudnum (tincture of Opium)
Paragoric (tincture of Morphine)
Any number of patent medications with high concentrations of alcohol.
What was generally missing from public conciousness back then, though, was wide-spread knowledge of the effects and side effects of these substances.
There are some very good reasons why they were highly regulated. And there are any number of good reasons why they should still be highly regulated.
There are also some very good reasons why dealers should be tried and executed at streetside in the neighborhoods where they are dealing.
------------------
Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited October 23, 2000).]
Christopher II
New member
Shooter 2.5 -
Right on one, wrong (kinda) on the other.
The LP advocates a minimum wage of zero. There is no reason that the government should have any input into the contract between an employer and employee. Employers should be free to pay whatever the market will bear. I've seen no evidence that abolishing minimum-wage laws will "ruin the country."
As to open borders, the LP says that peaceful people should be able to cross borders freely. That doesn't mean that anyone and everyone gets to become a citizen (not to mention that with the end of the welfare state, there would be less incentive for bums and slackers to immigrate here.) So what exactly is your objection to an open borders policy?
BTW, I have been to the LP meetings, and I liked what I heard. If you're informed about libertarian thought and have decided it's not for you, that's okay. At least you've made an informed decision.
And if you can't bring yourself to waste a vote on Harry Browne, at least vote for some LP Senators/Reps. Put some pressure on the Republicans to vote pro-freedom!
And if Bush signs a new law banning assault weapons/pocket rockets/sniper rifles/insert your favorite gun here, well, them's the breaks...
Later,
Chris
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"TV what do I see, tell me who to believe, what's the use of autonomy when a button does it all??" - Incubus, Idiot Box
[This message has been edited by Christopher II (edited October 23, 2000).]
Right on one, wrong (kinda) on the other.
The LP advocates a minimum wage of zero. There is no reason that the government should have any input into the contract between an employer and employee. Employers should be free to pay whatever the market will bear. I've seen no evidence that abolishing minimum-wage laws will "ruin the country."
As to open borders, the LP says that peaceful people should be able to cross borders freely. That doesn't mean that anyone and everyone gets to become a citizen (not to mention that with the end of the welfare state, there would be less incentive for bums and slackers to immigrate here.) So what exactly is your objection to an open borders policy?
BTW, I have been to the LP meetings, and I liked what I heard. If you're informed about libertarian thought and have decided it's not for you, that's okay. At least you've made an informed decision.
And if you can't bring yourself to waste a vote on Harry Browne, at least vote for some LP Senators/Reps. Put some pressure on the Republicans to vote pro-freedom!
And if Bush signs a new law banning assault weapons/pocket rockets/sniper rifles/insert your favorite gun here, well, them's the breaks...
Later,
Chris
------------------
"TV what do I see, tell me who to believe, what's the use of autonomy when a button does it all??" - Incubus, Idiot Box
[This message has been edited by Christopher II (edited October 23, 2000).]
Shooter 2.5
New member
My complaint of people coming here is just based on population. A city used to be a city to the limits and then you had farmland and the country. Now it's miles and miles of suburbs to the next city. No thanks. The Mexicans are the hardest workers I have ever seen, so that's not part of the equation because to me they aren't coming here for the minimum wage. Illegals aren't getting the minimum anyway. They're coming here for the HOPE of doing better or at least their kids will have it better. If we have Mexicans by the hundreds dying in the desert now, what do you think will happen when we open the faucet. I will do somthing though. AFTER we destroy the dem party, they can be the 5% third party and the fight can be between the Repubs and the Libs.
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