Gas operated guns = headaches!

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Dave3006

New member
Is anyone else but me tired of the troubles with magazine or clip fed, gas operated guns? I can't even begin to tell you the problems I have had getting my ARs, Garands, FALs to function reliably. I had an AK once and it was by far the most reliable. However, it was not accurate enough to hold my interest. The ARs were the worst by far. Between the finicky gas system and the fragile mags, I could not sell them fast enough. The FAL choked occassionally. My Garands even short stroke occasionally. It is enough to make me wish I would have started and stayed with bolt and lever actions. Seems like less to go wrong.

Am I the only one?


My Glocks never malfunction. My Benelli M1S90 never has malfunctioned. Gas guns, However, are driving me crazy.
 
Maby you have a personal black cloud overhead.

Any autoloader or automatic is going to require ammunition strength and dimensions from within a tighter range than a bolt or lever gun.

The auto stuff requires attention to cleanliness and preventative maint held to a higher standard than a bolt or ? but ALL firearms SHOULD be maintained to the best level possible. The life you save may be your own.

That said.....I have had peerless performance from a number of milspec autos and autoloaders. And we're talkin a LOT of rounds.

Sam
 
Which Ak "style" make were you using? Chineese? Try a Romanian or Bulgarian or better yet a Hungarian..they are at least as good as most levers, in terms of accuracy.

I think there are too many types of AK to write them all off, same goes for the AR series...
 
Semi's can be finicky like a cat. First, they like a special diet of ammo: mil-spec. Start feeding them civilian stuff and they'll wear out faster, have parts breakage, or do irritating things like jam. Then there's the glut of aftermarket magazines. Gee, and we wonder why the gun jam? I learned years ago to avoid aftermarket mags. Go with factory spec if you want reliability. Another funny thing about semi-auto rifles is that they like to visit the doctor more for check-ups. Weak spring tension can cause a myriad of headaches. Worn parts strangely become unreliable. Or just plain old fashion dirt build-up can foul up a gun's operation.

It's a matter of knowing that particular gun and then catering to its whims.

I suppose that's the beauty of bolt guns. Unlike gas operated, it's far simplier. Like Stuart Otteson wrote: it's an action which allows the operator to control everything from the chambering of the round to the ejection of the spent cartridge case.
 
You may need to cut back on caffeine. :p

Seriously, I've had substantially diametrically opposite experience with my autos, bang, bang, bang, every time. My current stable includes Colt AR15, US Carbine 30 M1, Springfield M1A, and Russian Dragunov. Boringly repetitive functioning, all.:D
 
Dave,

I've also had the opposite experience of yours. I have 8 different semi-auto military style rifle and the only one that I've had problems with is the IJ M-1 Carbine short stroking and this was due to my hand loads.

My AR-15 SP1 and M1A Super Match had had thousands of rounds with the vast majority handloads and never a malfunction. Actually its been over three years since I've cleaned my SP1 and whenever I take it out to fire a few hundred rounds it works. I'm trying to induce a malfunction due to being dirty.

I also agree with CR Sam post totally.


Turk
 
Actually I have never had major problems with any gas-operated rifle. Worst thing to happen to me is that I once got a Springfield Armory FAL second-hand that the previous owner had neglected to tighten the gas adjustment ring after cleaning.
If it's a big deal, get a HK91...it's recoil operated.
 
The only problem I've had was with a Springfield Armory G3 that stovepiped while LOADING the round. The problem was traced to a NIW FMP mag releasing the round too early. Switched to a factory (HK) mag and all was well. Other than that, I can say that I am a wee bit more comfortable that my blowback guns will go boom on command than my gas operated ones. Its something about that magical gas tube that I forget to clean that just bugs me. :)
 
Sounds like you need to give the ol' mini 14 a whirl. All you need is a couple of PMI 30 round mags,a case or two of cheap Wolf ammo,a peice of weed-wacker line and Hoppe's #9 to run up and down the barrel once in a while,and you will be good to go.Mine has NEVER- EVER had the slightest problem so far,knock on wood.I have only cleaned the gas tube once,although its probably due.Good reliable gun with PMI's or factory mags,pull trigger,bang every time.
 
Gas operated guns=headaches

I have been a national match shooter for many years and I have found the gas guns to be very reliable if properly maintained and feed the proper amunition, hand loads of course included. When reloading use the proper powder and size the case to factory dimentions and any jams usually disappear.
Just as an interesting note. The worst guns in terms of reliality on our range turned out to be Remingtion 700 bolt guns. Broken extractors by the bucket load. Failures to feed from the magazine. Live rounds poping out while rapidly manipulating the bolt and jamed up triggers due to insufficient cleaning or over lubricating. Seriously I have seen far less problems with most of the gas-guns. My own ar-15 has just turned over 8,400 rounds without a single jam or malfunction. W.R.
 
Just wondering: is gas gun some kinda insider term of art. I mostly hear high power shooters use it. But it's redundantly redundant considering all current autoloading rifles are gas operated. The last recoil operated autoloaders I can rememeber were the Remington 8 and 81 and the Johnson WWII automatic rifle. All of these designs kicked the bucket 50 years ago or so.

It almost sounds pc when we have the perfectly fine words autoloader and automatic already.:confused:
 
It is natural for some of the earlier replies to think that my guns were not lubricated properly or that I was using aftermarket magazines with cheap ammo. This has just not been the case. For example, I became an expert on the AR before I gave up. I bought 4 Bushmasters with 4 undersize gas ports. I finally got them running OK. However, they would fail to feed at least one round in 200. Mil Spec mags with green followers and Federal ammo. The ARs sure are fun to shoot. However, I would not trust my life to one. The test for me is - would I give this weapon to my son? Hell no.

I will never forget watching the beach scene in Saving Private Ryan and thinking, "If I had an AR in this situation, it would be worthless". The FAL was better. And the Garand has been the best. However, both malfunction occassionally. Of course, the Bulgarian AK was the best 100% functionality, 100% of the time.

Dave
 
Dave3006,

I fall into "ain't never had a problem" camp with my gas guns. Take a long hard look at your ammo. The surplus 7.62X39 that you are feeding your AK is more than likely mil-spec'd ammo. I remember reading that all the foriegn AK chow us military surplus, even the new Wolff stuff (new production military, packaged in a consumer appealing box).

It is not wise to use hunting ammo (commercially made 30.06 or .308) in a Garand or FAL. The pressure/power curves are a bit different. Stick with USGI surplus or roll your own with the gas gun in mind.

Short stroking on any gas gun is a pretty fair indication that you are not generating enough "oomph" from your ammo.

Recently, I had a devil of a time with my AR when I went from mil-surp ammo to my own loads. I ended up needing a small base sizing die. I also had to seat the bullet deeper than what the commercial reloading books called for.

If you are using military surplus magazines, or any mag for that matter, change the follower spring for a new Wolff or something of similar quality. I have fixed many a problem with mags by changing that pesky spring.

As a word of advise, don't try to analys all the guns giving you grief at one time. Focus on one, get the corrected, then move on to the next.

hope this was helpful.
 
Dave, I understand your frustration, but... I believe it is a mistake to tar all AR15s with the same brush. Given, they are special purpose. Given, they are NOT for everybody. Given, they are not the best military rifle on the planet.

But... you said you bought 4 Bushmaster AR15 clones. If you bought them all at once I understand but if you bought them consecutively after learning the first was a POS, shame on you. There is no other civilian AR15 on the planet beside the Colt, pre-ban, imho. I have heard a thousand reasons why people would not touch a Colt with a ten foot pole - non mil spec. (What IS milspec, anyway??) If it ain't full auto, it ain't mil spec, anyway. Politics, caving in to clinton, yada yada. Strangely enough, the guys who buy other than Colt for all the sundry reasons always have "problems" with their Bushmasters, Olympics, Armalites, DPMSs, and whatever other clones they buy or assemble from parts in little baggies with no identification.

Similarly with magazines. If you have a military contract magazine that is undamaged, it will feed until hell freezes over. I have never had to discard a used Army mag, preferably marked Colt, but also Okay, Adventureline, Parsons, and others. The green follower hokum is something cooked up to make a out of spec military contract mag work. I belive it applies to Sanchez and maybe one or two more brands. The mags should not have been accepted by the military inspector, but destroyed. You will never have a problem with a metal or black follower 20 round or 30 round mag of the brands I've named. Frankly, I believe that that's the problem with cottage industry AR15 clones, too. The military inspector rejects parts which find their way into your Bushmaster, Olympic, DPMS, or Shotgun News Special.

So I say again, there are AR15s and there are AR15s.
 
Good posts, good intentions, however...

1. The FAL malfunctions were with American Eagle.
2. My Garand malfunctions are with M2 ball ammo.
3. I did not mention my problems with the Colt A3 AR15. Same thing.
4. I bought all four at once, 2 carbines, 2 full size 20" models.
5. Magazines were the Okay brand and Colt.
6. I'm not saying ARs are evil. They just aren't reliable or durable enough to trust MY life on. I think it is fair to say that they are questionable out of the box. And when made to work, they can be finicky. I want my weapons to be as reliable and tough as an anvil. It is my life.


Dave
 
Dave, don't walk under any ladders, K? :p

My father always used to say, "If you're born to be hung, you ain't gonna die a natural death." Some guys have all the luck, unfortunately it's BAD luck. :eek:
 
BigG: Did your father also pass along those words of wisdom regarding military rejected parts being installed in current Bushmasters, etc.? Where'd you get that interesting information? The sheer illogic of that information is overwhelming. (Or should that be underwhelming?) I've never had a failure in thousands of rounds through my Bushy Shorty, nor have several friends, whose Bushy's I set up.
 
I guess that's the point, Walter, bushies need to be set up. WTF is that? Is that like breaking in a 1911-type Kimber or Springfield? Colts need no set up or break in either AR15s or Gomit Models.:D
 
BigG

Rikwriter and Aerodog make reference to the recoil-operated HK91, and "blowback guns", respectively. You say there are no recently manuf. "non-gas-operated" rifles - what am I missing?
 
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