Garrett 45/70 Recoil

A

Alaska444

Moderator
I am quite interested in the 45/70 and the Garrett ammo in particular. The new Marlin guide gun 6 shot magazine in stainless steal looks like a real woods gun. I am limited in the amount of recoil due to a medical condition and would like some data on the Garrett ammo which seems to be one of the best options for dangerous game in North America.

I would appreciate real recoil values in the guide gun for the Garrett ammo especially his 540 gr at 1550 ft/sec. I have online calculators but I am also missing the amount of powder in his charges as well. Either would be of help to see if the guide gun will be in my future.

Thank you in advance.
 
I have never shot Garrets loads but I have shot my own loads. 525gr Beartooth Pile driver At about 1600 fps. I would not want to shoot them with A sholder injury.
 
For light recoil but good penetration the 300 gr factory loads with premium bullets would be easiest on your shoulder. The Winchester Partition [Nosler bullet] or the Corbon DPX [Barnes all copper] . They give about 1850-1950 fps performance is excellent .Special recoil pads would be a good idea also.
 
The recoil Kicks Softer than normal. But The recoil isn't Sharp, It actually seems to have a longer recoil push. (like a musket) But not as bad.
 
i think your best bet is have somebody you trust well shoot it and tell you what it is like. then if needed try some recoil pads till the gun will do what ya want. if thats a possibility
 
I can't give you quantifiable figures on Garrett's .45-70 heavy loads.
I HAVE shot it a bit & it's my big critter repellent in my Guide Gun.

Recoil is substantial.
If you have a medical problem that doesn't tolerate recoil well, you might look elsewhere.
Denis
 
Thanks for the replies. I found some reload stats that looks like high powered loads for 45/70 have about 55 +/- 3-5 gr of gun powder. I also always add lead weight to the stock of my guns which helps with recoil. My .444 is considered a stout load by many, but with the recoil pad configuration I have and the extra weight, it is quite tame, really like a 20 ga in many ways is what it feels like. The weight doesn't bother me to carry at all and it does tame the recoil quite a bit.

Interestingly, some of the Garrett loads are quite reasonable since he does not ascribe to maxing out his ammo for the lever guns which really are not built for that. With a 9.5 pound rifle, it looks like the 420 gr Garrett ammo would be only a little more than my .444. There is a wide range of ammo for the 45/70, some being quite mild indeed, much less than my .444.

I am thinking of getting a second woods gun for my son when he joins me and the Marlin guide gun with steel barrel looks quite neat which with proper loads would likely be quite manageable. I can't say that about the 540 gr Garrett load, it really sounds like quite the thumper, but quite effective as well.
 
If I read this correctly, you do not currently have a Marlin guide gun. I own a Ruger No. 1 in 45-70 and while I wouldn't call it brutal, I think it is stout shooting 300 gr loads.

The recoil isn't harsh, it's more a push, but it is stout. Not knowing what your shoulder can take, I think your best bet is to find someone who owns one and either try it yourself with light loads or have someone you trust shoot it. Recoil however is pretty subjective.

As a rough guide, the following recoil numbers are taken from Ammo and Ballistics 3

.243 recoil 1.25
.308 recoil 1.95
7mm Rem Mag recoil 2.06
30.06 recoil 2.16
45-70 Gov't recoil 2.43
375 H&H recoil 3.42

I'd guess a hot loaded 45-70 Gov't might be start to migrate towards the recoil of a .375 with some really hot loads.

I am thinking of getting a second woods gun for my son when he joins me and the Marlin guide gun with steel barrel looks quite neat which with proper loads would likely be quite manageable.
Click to expand...

If you stick with normal loadings, the recoil is stout but not bad. I'd guess if you can handle a .444, you can handle a .45-70 without problem.
 
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I save up money for a gun or two every year, the guide gun with a 6 shot magazine, stainless steal, ghost ring sites and 8 pound weight sounds like a real jewel for a woods gun.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/bigbore/1895SBL.asp

In part, I am looking for something my son can use when he comes up to Idaho to visit as well. We now have grizzly in our area as well as a growing wolf problem in the Idaho panhandle. My issue is that I must protect my left arm at all costs, that is why I use a shooting stick when practicing. My right shoulder handles the recoil just fine, even though the older I get, the less I enjoy the wallop.

In a dangerous game situation, taking the shot is not going to be a big deal for me if I have to, but at the same time, I am trying to minimize the recoil as much as possible which I have accomplished with my .444 to a great extent. However, the .444 is much more dependent on proper shot placement than a 45/70 with stout loads as far as stopping ability. From what I have been able to find so far, I believe I can find quite a few 300+ gr bullets in 45/70 that should do quite a job on the critters without too much undo recoil. The Garrett 540 Hammerhead looks like a real thumper on the other hand that I probably would avoid from what I have found to date.
 
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My .02 cents

I have had a Guide Gun for quite a few years now and I really like it.
I have been playing around with handloads for a while now, and have shot the Garret loads, they are pretty stiff!
Badlander, How about them Pliedrivers!:eek:, I have gotten mine up to about 1700fps, and that is more recoil than I want to experience on a regular basis.

Alaska444, This is just my amature opinion, as I have never shot anything as big as a Brown Bear, But if I were going to load up for them and had a problem with my shoulder (that is about the only bodypart that I do not have a problem with, yet:o), I would consider a hard cast bullet of 400gr. as opposed to a jacketed design, at a moderate velocity, say 1400-1500fps. at most. That should give deep, straight line penetration without tearing up your upper body too badly. From what I have seen out of mine, that bullet should go most of the way through a bear, even if it hits bone.
JMHO, and as always, YMMV.
Willy
 
Thanks ipscchef, Garrett actually recomends their 420 gr at 1650 over their 420 gr at 1850 for inside of 100 yards for grizzly defense. It looks like the recoil on that would be in the neighborhood of my .444 at present. I really like the concept of the current guide gun with 6 shot magazine and peep sights from the factory stainless steel. With the wet weather up in the Idaho panhandle, that is probably the go to gun for that area more so than my blued .444. Just add a little bit of weight to the stock and the recoil for such a load is about 25 ft-pds, quite manageable indeed especially throwing a Limbsaver on the back end as well.

Thanks again,

Alaska
 
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Alaska444:
Another option is a muzzle brake. I had my right (shooting) shoulder operated on, and a good brake can really help. The down side to a brake is that they can have brutal blast if you're a bit to the side of the shooter.
 
True enough about the muzzle brake, but the little hearing I have left, I would like to keep. My solution is to add weight in the form of lead to the stock and add some serious recoil pads. On my .444, I have a Limbsaver with a leather Kick Killer laced on top of that. No wonder it is my son's favorite rifle to shoot. It is very easy on the shoulder for what comes out the other end.

A lot of folks want a feather light gun to carry in the woods, but the extra couple of pounds is no big deal to me in the least and it does make a lot of difference on the other end. Those high powered loads with super light rifles are brutal to say the least. I found that out early with a single shot 12 ga. Worst gun I have ever shot to date as far as recoil, but I was young and didn't really care about that back then. Can't remember what ever happened to that gun but I don't really miss it for sure.

For those that want to conserve weight for a long pack, a muzzle brake is a good option but the muzzle blast limits that as well. In my 52 years on this planet, I have yet to find many perfect solutions to different problems.
 
no matter how hard i try to like a lever gun in 45 70 the recoil is intolerable for me. usually it takes a couple of years to forget why i sold the last one, lol.
... i have tried a win 86, marlin cowboy, and a pistol grip marlin besides. throw in a couple of h & rs' too.
...i finally gave up and now i shoot a sharps replica with a moderate weight barrel and i can handle the recoil with no grief. just thought i would share, bobn
 
I don't have the guide gun, but I do have a Marlin 1895CB in 45-70 which is substantially heavier than the guide gun. Your standard 405gr loads will be adequate for Grizzly. The factory 300gr has more velocity/recoil. I put together some 500 grain handloads. My CB is probably 4+ lbs heavier when loaded than the guide gun. Don't recall any detriments to my left arm when shooting these, BUT, you could have crushed a Porsche if it was between my right shoulder and the buttstock! I imagine the 540 Garrett's will be on par with this. Get some and let your son shoot them. I too, have Grizzly and wolf in my back yard. Have you thought about a 12 gauge shotgun in the line of a Remington 870 Tactical with the Knox stock? With 2 3/4 inch shells I think mine holds 8 rounds total. A 1 oz slug should weigh about 440 grains. Slings easily, quick to operate and probably cheaper than the guide gun.
Ralph
 
Dear Ralph Allen,

Thanks for the tip. I will keep my eye open if i can come across the Remington. The added weight really helps out quite a bit more than folks would think with your Marlin Cowboy rifle. As far as the wolves go, we should send some of them to the folks in WA DC so that they can enjoy them as well. Simply amazing that they insist on bringing back this predator that causes great harm to livestock and pets. I have seen some of the videos on how they eat cows alive from the rear leaving the animal in pain and misery. The libtards never talk about the true nature of this animal. As far as I am concerned good riddance to them all.
 
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