G30/KimberUltraElite/SpringfieldCompV-10

C

chaho

Moderator
All three guns did excellent. I used Blazer 230Gr.TMJ(100rds),Win USA 230Gr.FMJ(100rds), Federal Hydra-Shok 230Gr.JHP(50rds).
The best and most consistant group was the G30 (least recoil felt). The Kimber was dead on Bulls Eye every first shot(more recoil felt, especially with Hydra-Shok). Surprisingly, The V-10 did excellent on rapid fire (due to porting)! In Conclusion, until the G36 comes out, the Kimber Ultra Elite is the Best CCW today Hands Down! More tests with the same Guns Using different Ammo Like Speer and ProLoad will be posted this weekend Bye.

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Just to compare, I did some similar work with my Kimber ultra elite and a Colt officer ltwt. I purchased the Colt first, and changed the trigger and grips to accomodate my small hands. Using factory mags, I experienced numerous failures to feed with all types of ammo. Once I replaced the mags with 7 rnd McCormack, most of the problems went away. The accuracy was good, espcially for a self defense pistol. As far as reliabilty, it has fired dirty, overlubed, and bone dry without a hitch since the mag change with all types of rounds including some lightweight bullet superfast velocity RBCD loads. With the new trigger, release is crisp at 4 lbs with no creep. I recently bought the ultra elite because I had heard good things about the Kimber, I liked the look and size of the factory custom pistol. I put the Slim-tech grips on it, but haven't had a chance to change the trigger. There is a little creep, but breaks about 3.5 lbs. With the Colt 6 rnd. mags, I experienced the same feed problems as the Colt. However, changing to the factory supplied mag (which I believe is a McCormack) did not completely eliminate the feed problems. The after market mags seem to work better, but the the problems remained. The best luck I have had is with a 200 gr. TEHP produced by AMB porduced here locally using flashless powder(No, I have no affiliation with this company :)Zero feed problems. It is a straight shooter, a real nail tacker. Clean or overlubed, it seems to work fine. Dirty, still good. Dry, forget it! Cycling the slide and pulling the trigger, produced a situation where on the first pull nothing happened. Additonal pulls would allow the hammer to fall to the half cocked position. Ouch! Restoring normal lubrication resulted in normal functioning of the pistol. Now you might be thinking why I would be doing this to my $500 and $1000 pistols? Well I like to know under all conditions my choice of personal defense weapons will operate. My personal observation is to keep that Kimber well maintained if you plan on carrying it. Interestingly enough, the barrel lug lockup on the Colt is deeper and tighter then on the Kimber even though the Kimber is more accurate (I know many things go into accuracy). I was suprised how shallow the lockup is. Whether this is a problem long term remains to be seen, but I think Kimber will replacing my slide or more likely the barrel within a couple of thousand rounds or less. Of course I do not think they figured many folks would be putting alot of rounds through this thing on a regular basis. They did not see me coming I guess. After I put the short trigger in it, I plan on replacing the front sight with fiber optics on both pistols. There may be reasons why some people need night sights, but for me they do not work well with my old eyes in daytime and low light. I hope you enjoyed my comments and by no means am I critizing your comments as I will probably be carrying my kimber much of the time (at least until the G36 comes out). I just thought you might be interested in my experiences. Good luck, good shooting, and have a safe and prosperous holiday season and new millineum! ak9
 
i've shot tens of thousands of rounds through both the glock 30 and the kimber ultra elite, but not the v-10. personally, don't care for springfield, but if the gun works, carry it. more specifically, i don't care much for any kind of porting on defensive guns, so that rules the v-10 out on principle, not preference.

imho, the glock 30 is the best glock there is, bar none. shoots softer than a glock 21 and the cycle rate is quicker. dual recoil spring assembly simply works wonders. my petite significant other can shoot it all day long.

the kimber ultra elite is a pretty gun, but if you're looking stretch out your defensive dollar, buy a plain kimber ultra and get night sights and non-tack grips. though not my favorite kimber, the ultra is an unusually consistant tack driver, and at 25oz light and 1911 slim (advantage over glock 30), it is very hard to beat for prolonged concealed carry.

now, enter the glock 36... anyone care to send me one in the spirit of christmas?

best regards,
joe

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[This message has been edited by skdtac (edited December 24, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by skdtac (edited December 24, 1999).]
 
skdtac, I was really interested in your comments on the ultra elite. How many thousand of rounds and any wear on the slide or barrel lugs? I am not a big fan of Springfield either, but they must have done something right for the FBI. I do not know what they are paying for those things, but with the number they are buying, it seems the tax payer is getting the shaft again. Do not get me wrong. I have no heartburn with the agents carrying the best they can get, if indeed the the Springfield is the best as the tests seem to indicate, but you and I can order the same pistol at $3000 thousand a pop. I have visions of the entire agency demanding equal treatment. You know the standard argument concerning safety, standardiztion, and liability. Having been in government for a number of years in my previous life, I know how the weenies think. Besides, I do have this thing about buying american (read that USA) when ever possible. The Barretta debacle should have proved that to the purchasing agents. Well, we won't go there this fine day. To chaho, thanks for the welcome. I have been to glocktalk, but have not felt the urge to participate. Seems to me you either like them or hate them. For my money, they are the best shooting, most reliable gun out of the box and I hate the way a double stack feels in my hand and in belt. Shoulder carry- ok. I got on the bandwagon years ago with the model 19 and it is just like that enerigizer bunny, but the the way the carry laws are written and liability being what it is, 9mm isn't where it's at! The rest in .45 just do not fit me well. I understand there are about a million G36s in a wharehouse in Ga., but the ATF is giving them grief about future import quotas. What is with that? Any ideas?


[This message has been edited by ak9 (edited December 25, 1999).]
 
ak9, i don't keep a log (i should) but i've probably put over 25k through the g30 series, and 15k combined through the ultra elite and other kimber ultras combined. not exactly a one-gun test in either instance, but in the case of the ultra, i understand that kimber has yet to see an aluminum frame come back destroyed from stress- they may be the only manufacturer machining out of bricks of aircraft grade aluminum. they advertise that a compact aluminum they tested in the factory shot 20K rounds and 4 proof loads with no damage. now my para p13 alloy i had 6 years ago crapped out after only around 1,500 rounds- major frame failure. of course none of this is a major issue with our beloved glocks.

as for wear on kimbers, i've seen some get a little loose in the slide to frame engagement after alot of rounds, and some stay tight. personally, i really don't care too much about that area of fit. the first thing i check is the barrel lockup. the ultra's i've shot have had no play when pushing down on the barrel hood, even after thousands of rounds- nice and tight :)

as for springfield doing "something right", you pay enough money and you'll get norinco to do it right also. i really think you can measure the quality of a gun and the company by looking at the base models. never mind the $3000 springfield fbi gun, look at the entry level "loaded" gun. then compare to what else is on the market. the loose parts, the very sharp edges, the staked front sight, the two-piece barrels, the imported frames... but hey, i digress into personal preference stuff- if it shoots reliably, go for it.
;)
joe

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www.skdtac.com
tactical accessories for self-defense and le
 
skdtac, I bow to your experience with the Kimbers. I hope that mine will holdup as well. I really wasn't worrying about the frame at this point, as everything you mentioned about the machining was right on the money. My primary concern was the slide and barrel as I as I have only put 500 rnds through the gun and already am seeing some wear and getting some play in the barrel at lockup. I am sure Kimber will stand behind their product if it comes down to it. If you haven't checked out the STI, it is worth a good look. Only problem they do not offer a compact .45- .40sw or 9mm only in compact. Sweet! My police buddy just went to the factory and secured the full size .45 and it is super. Alot of gun for the money. Thanks for the info and regards. P.S. I was wrong. STI does offer a 3.9 inch .45 at $1900, but the 3.5" .40sw is about $850.

[This message has been edited by ak9 (edited December 25, 1999).]
 
Today ! Win clean 230 gr. BEB did the trick.
I shot better with my Ultra Elite than my Sweet G30 ! Originally I wanted to sell my G30 but now I am not sure. You see it is my all day fun shooting gun. But my Ulta Elite is more accurate and would not want to shoot it all day because it will kill my hand. So, tell me what to do. I also have a G19C (barsto barrel, compatition 3.0lbs trigger,comp slide and mag release) to shoot all day with and IT is more accurate than my kimber. Maybe my fun days of shooting .45 is nearing an end !
 
chaho, why can't you have it all? Did Herr Slickmeister sign an executive order (read that emperial order) limiting us to the number of handguns we can have during the holiday, while congress was out or did the queen of the house put her foot down? Just kidding!
 
SKDTAC, I understand that you've had great luck with your Kimber, but (and I'll keep this short) I had awful luck with mine, and poor customer service to boot. I went to Springfields, (loadeds)and I'm extremely happy. Sure it's not as accurate as my old Kimber, but it works great. If folks would do a search on Kimber, they'd find a lot of complaints about them.

p.s. My wife has a V-10, and it works great!
 
If you're looking for the best CCW gun, ask yourself:

What do cops and federal agents carry?

Other than SWAT and HRT teams who are now using the Springfields as duty guns, undercover operations and detectives are carrying the Glock 26 or Glock 27. Some carry the Kahrs as well due to their thinness. A couple of my DEA/ATF agent friends carry Sig P228s/P226s.

But in 45 ACP, the best alternative under $500 with hi-cap option that is easily concealable with no safeties and reputed to be the most accurate Glock of all is the Glock 30. You can use Glock 21 mags in it.

Many agencies are requiring their officers to carry backup guns that can use the magazines from their duty weapons. Glocks are snag free, rounded edges, low profile sights, no horns and the G26/27/30/33 are designed for CCW.

Of all of my law enforcement friends, none carry Kimbers or Springfields on or off duty.

Why would you?

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The Seattle SharpShooter
If it can't shoot jacketed rat turds powered by mouse farts, I ain't gonna shoot it!
 
I have never carried my G30 chambered !
And when I do descide to carry a chambered gun, it will be the Ultra Elite.
 
hi front sight!
i'm sorry to hear that you've had bad experiences with kimbers. if you had a sh*%ty experience with a company (any company!), i'm not one to try and convince you otherwise. whether i think it's fair for others to judge a company or a product on your experience is a different story.

i've heard good and bad things about their customer service, and in my experience, it's usually the ones with bad experiences that want to be heard. case in point, i only joined this list a week ago, and i've already encountered multiple posts from you alone regarding your bad experience with kimber. so with all due respect, i will keep shooting my kimbers because i know they stone cold work, and i wont try to convince anyone that you're wrong, b/c i can accept that maybe your experience was very different from mine.

btw, regarding springfields, you have no problems with the edges when doing full speed clearance drills under stress? not that i don't work with my hands, but i found it to be uncomfortable to say the least ;)

best,
joe


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www.skdtac.com
tactical accessories for self-defense and le
 
hi jtduncan,
while i agree with you that the glocks are great choices for carry, i respectfully have to disagree with you that the best question to ask would be "what do cops and federal agents carry?"

most of the time, cops don't get to choose what they carry. while many smaller, rural departments may have more liberal policies on firearms choice, the overwelming majority of america's 19,000 state and local agencies have strict guidelines on what officers can carry on and off duty.

furthermore, the sad truth is that most cops are not marksmen by any stretch of the imagination. i've got too many friends on well respected *special* teams that can't keep up with your average squad of c class ipsc shooters. this is a sad testament to the state of l/e today. cops need more money to train like they fight, but instead, administrators decide to dumb down the whole system by replacing proper training with pieces of equipment. end result, the overwelming majority fight like they train- extremely poorly.

have you ever tried shooting a duty glock with a ny-plus trigger? around half of nypd's 40,000 cops are walking around with that 12lb-trigger pull abomination because of liability concerns and a lack of training. this to me is not the way to choose a carry gun, and no one should allow any given department's administrative policy play a role in deciding what gun you should carry.

i'm sure the cops on this forum would agree. the cops who frequent this forum are probably shooters who take their guns seriously- that would automatically make them part of the minority of cops that actually know how to shoot and shoot well. if you ever get a chance to talk to anyone from delta (they have a ridiculous budget and sickening allowances for ammunition to train with) ask them what they feel about the 1911.

so again, while i wholeheartedly embrace your endorsement of glocks, i strongly believe that cops are not the standard for good shooting, nor should their guns be automatically seen as *the best choice* without understanding how and why those guns were chosen by administrators.

best regards!
joe

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www.skdtac.com
tactical accessories for self-defense and le
 
skdtac, I can certainly understand why the last 2 weeks of commentary would have put me in a bad light, but let me explain. The numerous repetitions of my story that I told were because I was trying to defend myself. Someone asked about Kimners, I gave a short but consise self-example. Someone didn't like it, and started insulting my intelligence. I never started all this "Kimber is crap" business, but my name got strewn all over the internet because I tried to defend my opinion. Isn't this what the media does to make the good guy look like scum? Honestly, I'm not a bad guy, and I never "went after" Kimber, and if I can't even comment on Kimbers because I'm a "known disliker of Kimbers," well, I might as well get a new handle so people will even consider what I have to say.
 
hi frontsight,
bottom line is that you have a gun that you are happy with. i'm glad the springfield is working out for you. i just wish i could've put some of the kimber's i've shot in your hands, but that isn't important now. we should all be focusing on practicing hard with what we have, and not trying to have a dick-measuring contest at every opportunity. can't we all get alooooooong???
;)
chat with you later!
joe


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www.skdtac.com
tactical accessories for self-defense and le
 
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